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Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

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Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#241

Post by trollbridge »

tonfa wrote: post #82
t0mas88 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public version of Gemini is ridiculous. At least half their search "answers" are just wrong. If you then start a follow up chat the answers change but usually still half wrong. Search would be better without the added AI hallucinations above it. If I want an AI answer I'll go and ask Claude, the quality difference is huge.

> The public version of Gemini is ridiculous. At least half their search "answers" are just wrong. That's not Gemini, that's AI Mode (in Search), they're different products built by fairly different part of Google (actually one is built by Deepmind). (I don't think it's much comparable to https://gemini.google.com/app at least in the past you'd get very different results)

And it's extremely poor marketing by Google to do this - the general perception people have is that Google AI is dumb due to this.

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#242

Post by rahkiin »

tom1337 wrote: post #101
peterspath wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the DMA regulation that forces Apple to give the same access as they have to other AI chat apps. Once it leaves the device Apple does not know what those other ai chat apps will do with the gathered data. > Siri AI is private by design and deeply integrated across Apple’s platforms using on-device processing and Private Cloud Compute, which extends the privacy and security of iPhone into the cloud. However, unde…

> It’s the DMA regulation that forces Apple to give the same access as they have to other AI chat apps. But why can Tesla ship Grok to their cars in the EU without any problems? Why aren't they required to let me choose between Grok, OpenAI etc or even a custom endpoint?

Tesla is not marked as a gatekeeper by the EU and thus the law does not apply.

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#243

Post by trollbridge »

mcmcmc wrote: post #172
dejawu wrote: post #7

It's strange to me that Apple would choose to disadvantage themselves by selecting Google as their provider as opposed to, say, Anthropic or even OpenAI. Doesn't this mean they'll struggle more to differentiate themselves from the assistant on Android phones? Thinking more cynically, couldn't Google, if they wanted, feed Apple an inferior version of Gemini, ensuring they stay ahead? As the consumer, this just sucks b…

A functioning FTC would not allow this. Insane that there will be no competition for integrated smartphone AI because the existing duopoly at the OS level has agreed to team up.

Or... because the existing duopoly of frontier/SOTA models (Anthropic and OpenAI) agreed to team up and not licence their weights.

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#244

Post by bigfudge »

Maxion wrote: post #196
bigfudge wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a shallow take. There are obvious privacy and security tradeoffs here. The EU competition framework is good in many ways, but this is actually something I don’t think we have the regulatory frameworks in place to handle yet , or social norms and understanding about why giving any Tom dick and Harry root on all your data is a bad idea. It’s paternalistic, but I agree with Apple that free for all access to…

I dunno, I trust the EU regulators more than I'd trust any US based company.

I do too, but in this case the choice isn't between apple and the EU. It's between apple and the your non-technical friends foolishly trust, without much understanding of the implications for them or society as a whole.

Ultimately I think it's important for the EU to regulate companies like apple to ensure competition. But in this instance, it doesn't seem like we have all the other pieces in place that would be necessary for a sensible rollout of that.

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#245

Post by geden »

drusepth wrote: post #191
jasonmp85 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you expect to use a nav system while driving without voice control?

Before you start driving, at stop lights, while waiting in lines, etc. I don't know how it works on CarPlay but when I turn my car on I have a bunch of suggested addresses (home, work, parents, recent Maps searches, etc) that I just touch-to-go. Having to use voice every time you want to navigate not only sounds unnecessary, but cumbersome.

Oh so exactly like Apple Maps via Carplay then.

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#246

Post by FridgeSeal »

bloppe wrote: post #230
peterspath wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the DMA regulation that forces Apple to give the same access as they have to other AI chat apps. Once it leaves the device Apple does not know what those other ai chat apps will do with the gathered data. > Siri AI is private by design and deeply integrated across Apple’s platforms using on-device processing and Private Cloud Compute, which extends the privacy and security of iPhone into the cloud. However, unde…

Apple loves to play dumb about this stuff. The EU imposes a pretty straightforward regulation regarding equality of access. Apple seems to come up with all sorts of "solutions" to this "problem", and each one never amounts to true equality of access. They could easily just allow users to decide "Do you want to give this app unfettered access to all your device data, including other apps' data?". Let users decide. 99%…

> Do you want to give this app unfettered access to all your device data, including other apps' data?

Which Facebook and instagram will present as “tee hee updated terms of service” in the first 15 seconds, and people will tick it, because they’re not interested in reading T&C’s, just want to message their friend about dinner, and aren’t suddenly expected be deceived like that.

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#247

Post by ErneX »

bla3 wrote: post #33
sterlind wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so to translate: - Apple has powerful capabilities in iOS to enable Siri AI. - EU's DMA requires them to allow users to install third-party AI backends. - Apple doesn't think parties other than themselves should be trusted with those iOS permissions. I guess it'd be like if Apple allowed a first-party screen reader for iOS, so they refused to allow third-party screen readers.

I don't think they trust Gemini as they run that on-device or on-site, on Apple's own servers. See also https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/

Newer one:

https://security.apple.com/blog/expanding-pcc/

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#248

Post by artursapek »

jasonmp85 wrote: post #160
aorloff wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes Apple "wraps" their AI in a "privacy architecture" -- you can't use Carplay unless you turn it (Siri) on.

How do you expect to use a nav system while driving without voice control?

I use Carplay all the time and I didn't even realize it has voice control. I just set things up on my phone and drive.

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#249

Post by nl »

arbirk wrote: post #186
NorwegianDude wrote: post #115

> The company reiterated that Apple Intelligence relies on on-device processing and Private Cloud Compute, with a promise that user data is only used to execute the immediate request and is not accessible to Apple or third parties. Apple added that outside experts can verify those privacy guarantees "at any time." Yes, the "Apple needs to look at your data to do this, but we don't have any way to look at the data if…

https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/

Apple's PCC is the best option for this kind of offload that exists.

However the PCC root keys are still signed by Apple which requires you to trust Apple and the laws in the jurisdiction Apple operates in.

Edit: for this update they seems to be running Gemini on Nvidia GPUs in Google's cloud[0]. How key management works for this part is unknown, but the standard setup for this is that Nvidia and Google would have keys too.

It does use the OHTTP relay[1] which makes it hard - maybe impossible - for Apple to hand over the keys for a particular person's data. Maybe that provides some additional protection in US courts against overreach.

Is this a problem for most people? Probably not - but it is something to be aware of.

I think Apple have made a great attempt to make this as safe and private as possible, but until we have a truly trustless E2E encrypted execution environment I don't see how compute offload technologies gets around this problem.

[0] > And to bring this model to production, we work with both Google and Nvidia to extend our Private Cloud Compute infrastructure to NVIDIA GPUs in Google’s cloud, while maintaining Apple’s unmatched privacy guarantees

https://9to5mac.com/2026/06/08/craig-federighi-details-apple...

[1] https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9458

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#250

Post by bensyverson »

nsagent wrote: post #237
bensyverson wrote: post #2

I would love to learn more about what's actually powering Apple Intelligence now. Are they using flagship Gemini models behind their own prompts? Fine-tuning? Pre-training their own models based on Gemini? Is there a meaningful distinction between the Gemini-powered models and Apple Foundation Models? Does that distinction vary for on-device vs hosted models? Are some models running on Apple's Private Cloud Compute a…

Am I reading this correctly? Their chosen cloud providers run the PCC stack on their hardware, so the compute provider is responsible for ensuring the privacy guarantees? I assume that would add to the potential security surface area.

Yes, that seems to be the case, and is an evolution/deviation of the original PCC model, which relied on Apple Silicon exclusively.
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