Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

You'll never be Chinese

haohaoreport.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 188 posts

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#171

Post by noname123 »

kaptain wrote: post #147

What does it mean to be Chinese? Technically, there is no Chinese ethnicity. China is made up of (officially) 56 ethnicities. My parents are ethnically Han Chinese. I was born in Canada, raised in America. I carry an American passport. To my neighbors, I'm a 华侨 (overseas Chinese); one taxi driver told me that I would be Chinese forever because it's in my blood. So what am I? Moving from the questions of ethnicity, is…

To be Chinese is to be 'jing' - to put it negatively, it means to be calculating, materialistic and ruthlessly advancing one's agenda; to put it positively, it means that you are constantly trying to improve yourself and be resourceful.

As 1.5 generation American-Chinese, I used to hate Chinese culture for its 'jing'-ness and rebelled it by going to a liberal arts college and reading Jack Kerouac, subscribing to the hippie culture etc. What I realized is that American culture, beneath its veil of "creativity" and "open society" is nothing but a cover for human selfishness universal in every society.

Most of my friends from college gone to Teach for America or PeaceCorps have done it for social currency - as much as my Chinese friends have gunned for Goldman Sachs/Microsoft for Chinese social currency. Of course, predictably, five years ago, these TfA and PeaceCorps grads are now enrolled dutifully in medical school or law school. European colonialism's "holier-than-thou" attitude is now baked subtly in that you may have the technical/economical prowess, but you yet don't have the renaissance quality. It's just as bad as the Chinese mindset of being judgmental by asking what school you went to and how much money you make.

Personally I've embraced the 'Chinese jing'. I don't think I'm better than any Chinese mainlander, I'm a shameless Chinese guy who's trying to make the biggest buck, get the hottest chick in the club, get the most prestige/respect in my field, destroy my enemies and don't give a fk about who gets hurt in my path. My only one redeeming quality is honesty (to myself) - which is why Westerners will never be Chinese.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#172

Post by chaostheory »

286c8cb04bda wrote: post #50
chaostheory wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A China that leads the world will not offer the chance to be Chinese, because it is impossible to become Chinese. I feel that this only applies for the elite, especially when there's a lot of political infighting; marrying an outsider will weaken the whole family which is really bad in a low trust society but that's another topic. This is not true for all social levels of China. China has practiced for what my inte…

> This is not true for all social levels of China. I somewhat disagree. That type of "reverse genocide" only works in East Asia. One of the reasons for the ongoing conflict in Xinjiang is that the local Uyghur, Kyrgyz, et al. don't look Chinese and don't pay any lip service to the "superiority" of Han culture. > If your children do no look "Chinese", they will not be considered as chinese. And this is the reason why.…

I'm confused. You "disagree", yet I don't see anything that really disagrees from my post.

> One of the reasons for the ongoing conflict in Xinjiang is that the local Uyghur, Kyrgyz, et al. don't look Chinese and don't pay any lip service to the "superiority" of Han culture.

If Han Chinese ever start intermarrying with Uyghurs in greater numbers this will change. Given the ratio of males to females in the mainland, I would guess that this will happen way before a sexual revolution in China (which the lack of imo is the reason for the gender population gap). I feel that this is the same reason that Han chinese started to intermarry with both Mongols and Tibetans.

> Even though their mother is 100% Han, my own children easily pass as average WASPs.

Not all Happas pass as WASPs. A lot of my cousins can pass as Han. This guy is another example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Locke

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#173

Post by gbog »

yadli wrote: post #162
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you can't get access to social services in Beijing, are you really a beijinger? Where do these kids go to school, take the gaokao, have a higher chance to get into PKU or qinghua? You aren't a full beijinger without hukou. That we can get hukou for a few of our college new hires every year is a big recruiting advantage for my company.

True. Actually there's been ongoing discusses on this issue, about education of children of migrant workers in China. You cannot purchase a house, send your kids to school, or access many social services without a Beijing hukou(something like resident identification). Big tech companies like Microsoft and Sina becomes more competitive on recruiting, because they have been given some hukou credits by the government, s…

Having a Beijing hukou helps but is not necessary. In China you always have other ways to do things.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#174

Post by chj »

Fleuri wrote: post #163
chj wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a chinese much older than you and in retrospective, the real problem in China education is the lack of first rate teachers who really understand the topic they are teaching.

But without the changing of exam-oriented system(应试教育), talents of teachers won't be able to bring in to play in their work.

Honestly exams are very weak once you really get the idea of what you are learning. I can absolutely know nothing about what I am learning and get a very high score in the exam. Richard Feynman also pointed this out during visiting years in Brazil. Students in China and Brazil suffer the same problem. There are first rate students, but without first rate guidance, most of them will be turned down to the levels of their teachers.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#175

Post by lsc »

kamaal wrote: post #131

The author seems to be stuck in a country which is rising after coming from a country which had already risen. The path to success is no cake walk, its tiring and it causes fatigue. As as Indian this article to me on many counts also looks like the story of India. The west will find it difficult to digest but the desperation to grow forces a person to go out of his way to do and achieve things people in the west in a…

>As a software engineer I've gone a whole week without sleep. And that was perfectly acceptable. My dad used to tell me, to consider myself lucky to even deserve the opportunity to go and work at a software company. Hence anything was acceptable.

Are you speaking metaphorically? or can you really perform under such conditions? I mean, I'm a SysAdmin, so a lot of my value is in my willingness to get up and fix something when my pager goes off at 4am; but I am very conscious of my declining productivity as I deprive myself of sleep. In fact I try to go to sleep before I'm absolutely exhausted for just this reason. The longest outages are always those that come right when I'm about to go to sleep.

It's not a matter of comfort or will; it's a matter of performance. Yes, I can make myself stay awake for several days, but I will make more mistakes. Way more mistakes. At some point, even in the middle of an outage, it makes sense to set an alarm for a few hours from now and take a nap, otherwise you just keep digging deeper. Staying up, sure, impresses the boss, but it doesn't get the job done any faster.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#176

Post by repoman »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #102
Shenglong wrote: post #85

Bitterly biased. The China that the author describes is not the China I've seen. Housing prices may be high, but he neglects to mention that it's common for companies to provide housing to their employees. Yes, people will ask you about your money - but that's culture, and it's not impolite. There are a lot of untruths in his article, but it's too long to pick apart. A big one, though, is about appreciation for forei…

Companies still provide housing? Are you serious? That went out with the 90s in the big cities! And even then, how many people actually work for the government or an SOE qualify for this housing provided by the company? Its very easy to judge China through a western perspective; you just say "it was judged through a western perspective." Judging is always relative to a perspective and is useful to evaluate your situa…

Hmmm... yes you can go to Intentional school. There are plenty in Shanghai. I bet you are not wealthy enough to get in? Only Chinese people can understand the problems in China. It's a complicated society. You guys only see the surface of the soceity. Deep inside, every corner of the street is a community itself. Every village is a different society.

The one thing that people can agree on is that Chinese government puts too much time and effort in keeping GOP as high as possible, and neglect fairness. But it is hard to do anything useful: deep interest group involves in every level of the government. Bad.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#177

Post by scott_w »

philwelch wrote: post #144
msabalau wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, that we speak of "the British" is a testament to a certain level of success of melding English/Scottish/Welsh identities, much of which happened in the context of imperial endeavor. And certainly many other groups (Sepoys, say) found their interests aligned at times with the imperial project, in a way that outweighed their ethnic background. Being open to a flexible interpretation of identity/citzenship (B…

> a certain level of success From the outside. On the inside, I think most Britons identify more as English, Scottish, or Welsh than British. Scotland and Wales live under the semi-official delusion that they are actually "countries" in some meaningful way, not just autonomous subdivisions of the UK, and even compete separately in international sporting events outside of the Olympics. Even forming a unified soccer te…

The controversy mostly stemmed from the potential effects of running a British football team, particularly regarding the UK's status within FIFA.

The home nations each have a representative within FIFA, UEFA and IFAB, as well as being able to compete individually, and collectively enter more club teams into the UEFA Champions League. This causes some tension with other countries, who see the UK as a single country that wields undue influence in the global game.

If the UK establishes its own football team for the purposes of the Olympics, then there is a fear that FIFA would use this as an excuse to shut down the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish FAs and force them to fold into the FA. This is the reason Scotland refused to allow its players to be picked for the Olympics.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#178

Post by philwelch »

scott_w wrote: post #177
philwelch wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a certain level of success From the outside. On the inside, I think most Britons identify more as English, Scottish, or Welsh than British. Scotland and Wales live under the semi-official delusion that they are actually "countries" in some meaningful way, not just autonomous subdivisions of the UK, and even compete separately in international sporting events outside of the Olympics. Even forming a unified soccer te…

The controversy mostly stemmed from the potential effects of running a British football team, particularly regarding the UK's status within FIFA. The home nations each have a representative within FIFA, UEFA and IFAB, as well as being able to compete individually, and collectively enter more club teams into the UEFA Champions League. This causes some tension with other countries, who see the UK as a single country th…

The Scottish FA never had the power to "refuse to allow" anything, there just weren't any Scottish players worth calling up. The Welsh FA made the same statements but that didn't stop Welsh players from being called up.

Britain's status in FIFA demonstrates just how poorly the notion of a "British" national identity has taken hold.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#179

Post by gmyachtsman »

travisp wrote: post #170
xentronium wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if my comment came off as a little blunt, as I intended no rudeness, but I'm tired of knee-jerk comments regarding Russia. In your linked study they measure number of buckled drivers as slightly more than 50%. That's somewhat different to jamming seat buckle altogether with a key holder, don't you think? Rear seat passengers do not wear seat belts indeed, but that's another story: lots of cars simply don't have…

OK, sorry if I was took it the wrong way. What I was responding to was more the seat belt usage isn't too common and people feeling offended if you as a passenger put on a seatbelt. I did not experiencing the particular situation with the key holder. China is no doubt worse, but my point was that this particular thing (lack of seatbelt usage and negative opinion about them) says little about China given that it's a f…

In China the seat belts in Taxi's are so dirty, if they have them at all (most are removed), that if you put the belt on, your clothes will be filthy when you get out. That is because the seat belts are never used. So it is your safety or or cleanliness and appearance -- even I am reluctant to cover myself with filth for a short trip.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#180

Post by Wingman4l7 »

natrius wrote: post #94
sparkie wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do pity the guy for moving back to the UK, expecting some kind of blessing of freedom. Perhaps he has been gone too long to realize the extend to which our police state now reaches. In the past 15 years, we have reintroduced star chambers, armed the police, failed to prosecute anybody in the police force for murdering innocent citizens, introduced 'precrime' arrests to stifle dissent, and we're extraditing British…

Is there an English-speaking melting pot that doesn't have these problems?

Does Australia?

They seem to keep getting lambasted on Slashdot for proposing draconian internet censorship legislation, but I don't think any of it ever gets passed... how are they on the "police state" issue?

Post reply on HN