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You'll never be Chinese

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Re: You'll never be Chinese

#31

Post by wensheng »

strebler wrote: post #16

This is definitely one of the better (and more accurate) articles on the subject. I have been doing business in China and definitely see his view - it's easy to see why most of China's elite send their children abroad. I wouldn't live there for an extended period. I'd say their education system (and society) tends to hammer the creativity out of people. I see strong evidence that who think differently are ridiculed.…

When I was in China, i often ride in friends' cars. The first thing I do when I get in cars is buckling up, and I'm often ridiculed for fearing of death (i really am). Twice I sit on the passenger side and tried to put the seatbelt plate into buckle but I couldn't, because there's already a key holder in there. I learned since no passenger wear seat-belt, the driver just put the key holder there to silence the warning noise, they already have key holders in on driver's side.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#32

Post by msabalau »

Jd wrote: post #3

"A China that leads the world will not offer the chance to be Chinese, because it is impossible to become Chinese. " Of course. The British led the world and did not offer (at the time) anyone the chance to be British either. In fact, they actively discouraged interbreeding. It is a dogma of the modern Occident that it is stronger to be multi-ethnic, and that national identity should be open to anyone. History shows…

Of course, that we speak of "the British" is a testament to a certain level of success of melding English/Scottish/Welsh identities, much of which happened in the context of imperial endeavor. And certainly many other groups (Sepoys, say) found their interests aligned at times with the imperial project, in a way that outweighed their ethnic background.

Being open to a flexible interpretation of identity/citzenship (Brits, Romans) or having a nominally universal ideology/religion (Americans, Islamic caliphates) seems like it be a large help in successful world leadership, even if it's not a prerequisite.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#34

Post by Jd »

cromwellian wrote: post #13
colmvp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whereas most Asian men in Western countries get rejected by Caucasian females for not being Caucasian. (Source: OkCupid studies, anecdotes, Quora, etc.)

That seems to be a trend which is improving however (more Asian Male/Caucasian Female couples) At least in California among professionals.

Are there statistics that indicate the situation is improving? I'm not in Cali anymore but have Asian american male friends who like Caucasian women that would be interested in this.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#35

Post by [deleted] »

enraged_camel wrote: post #11
fring0 wrote: post #7

It's funny to see more of these articles about China where westerners get their panties in a bunch when they find themselves in a similar situation most other people have been in with respect to the west. I should write a similar article about my American/European dream. I hope the Chinese are able to take criticism better than the west. Westerners can't get over their superiority complex.

>>I hope the Chinese are able to take criticism better than the west. Westerners can't get over their superiority complex. Actually, most Chinese people I've met, especially those who were born and raised in mainland China, have a massive superiority complex. In every type of discussion comparing the West to China, they keep bringing it up the fact that China has thousands of years of history, and has invented things…

[deleted]

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#36

Post by DisposableMike »

jisaacstone wrote: post #22

Take a moment and conciser how a similar piece, written of the United states around the turn of the last century, might read. Remember the 'roaring 20s?' Materialistic society, ambivalence about foreign affairs, widespread corruption, distrust of foreigners. A Chinese who owned a tea shop in a small town may well have to beg for a renewed lease, yes? Well, China is not the United States, but lets put things in perspe…

How can you possibly justify your statement that the leaders of China don't want to be thought of as a 'world leader'? Practically every action within the last 10+ years has had that express purpose. What do you call the Beijing Olympics? That was a "coming-out" party of epic proportions, followed by frequent statements about the 'arrogant' West not recognizing China's greatness, etc.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#37

Post by Jd »

msabalau wrote: post #32
Jd wrote: post #3

"A China that leads the world will not offer the chance to be Chinese, because it is impossible to become Chinese. " Of course. The British led the world and did not offer (at the time) anyone the chance to be British either. In fact, they actively discouraged interbreeding. It is a dogma of the modern Occident that it is stronger to be multi-ethnic, and that national identity should be open to anyone. History shows…

Of course, that we speak of "the British" is a testament to a certain level of success of melding English/Scottish/Welsh identities, much of which happened in the context of imperial endeavor. And certainly many other groups (Sepoys, say) found their interests aligned at times with the imperial project, in a way that outweighed their ethnic background. Being open to a flexible interpretation of identity/citzenship (B…

Granted. My own personal take is that you need to be very aware of the substrate (which includes genetics, ethnicity, religion, geography, available resources, etc.) and have a vision that is greater than the substrate. The problem with American empire at the present moment, in my very strongly held opinion, is that we are denying the impact of the substrate and launching into "economic-magic" which is very detached from value of any kind -- with the strong risk of impaling not only our own traditional strengths (goodbye American car companies) but the rest of the world economy with it.

Along these lines, I wish the Chinese all the best for producing things things well that we care about and buy -- this is esp. true of Taiwan, which has retained some measure of traditional positive values that are not entirely materialistic, and I have some optimism that the not longer particularly Communist part can develop in a not especially materialistic direction.

As for America, I think we need a miracle.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#38

Post by xiaoma »

colmvp wrote: post #12
Jd wrote: post #3

"A China that leads the world will not offer the chance to be Chinese, because it is impossible to become Chinese. " Of course. The British led the world and did not offer (at the time) anyone the chance to be British either. In fact, they actively discouraged interbreeding. It is a dogma of the modern Occident that it is stronger to be multi-ethnic, and that national identity should be open to anyone. History shows…

Whereas most Asian men in Western countries get rejected by Caucasian females for not being Caucasian. (Source: OkCupid studies, anecdotes, Quora, etc.)

This whole, "oh the west is just as bad" troupe needs to die.

But if they do have children, they don't have to endure this: http://www.chinasmack.com/2009/stories/shanghai-black-girl-l...

Can you even imagine a "mixed" kid who grew up entirely in the US being cussed out by well over half the commenters on a talent show, and for even the kids mother to be attacked relentlessly for being with a man of a different color? The WSJ link doesn't even get into the worst of it. You should have seen the weibo comments on Lou Jing.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#39

Post by cromwellian »

Jd wrote: post #34
cromwellian wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to be a trend which is improving however (more Asian Male/Caucasian Female couples) At least in California among professionals.

Are there statistics that indicate the situation is improving? I'm not in Cali anymore but have Asian american male friends who like Caucasian women that would be interested in this.

I don't have any statistics, just anecdotes. I've just noticed an uptick in AM/WF couples. My neighbors across the screen. My friend who just got married. People I see at work.

Without being too cynical, I attribute this to a natural outgrowth of the economic success of AMs, the rising tides in Asia, and more and more AMs appearing in media. (e.g. Daniel Dae Kim in Lost) Let's be honest, men's romantic liberty in choosing mates is often proportional to economic success.

It all started with Russell Wong and the Noxema Girl in "Vanishing Son" :)

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#40

Post by smacktoward »

wensheng wrote: post #18
iag wrote: post #10

Very insightful article. I feel more worried about the Chinese housing bubble crash than anything else. You think the '07 US recession was bad? That'd be a walk in the park if China's bubble bursts.

Don't worry, the government will never let the crash happen. Plus they are trying "tightening" the housing now. Stagnating might be a better word: neither let price fall nor let it rise too fast.

Don't worry, the government will never let the crash happen

My bet would be these words were uttered right before every crash in history...

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