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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#591
post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chechnya war also was very close and nobody cared since they were mostly Islamic, and the war in the former Yugoslavia happened just in the middle of Europe, but apparently many have already lost memory of it despite the atrocities committed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

Many people also did not care about Georgia. So while cultural proximity is certainly a factor, geographical proximity seems to be a significant factor, too. I don't think Sreberenica is forgotten or was ignored in Europe. The West seems to be slow to wake up -- and Putin got high on his sequence of "successful" wars. I don't want to deny that hypocrisy exists here, but it doesn't justify Putins crimes anywhere.

This is way worse than Georgia, Krim and Chechnya combined. Ukraine is a big country with a big army. The stakes Russia are putting in are big and shows the commitment with the pretense of being cornered. It is a full invasion. Also the NATO and EU military support in what Russia sees as their business is escalating the risks.

This is probably two magnitudes worse concerning the risk for further spread.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those few words are a perfectly adequate response though. The author has bigger things to get done right now.

Then why not cache the response and just put a banner on the project giving people context, instead of individually half answering the technical questions with a rhetorical question?

They did, the README was updated 4 days ago with a banner explaining the situation.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#593
post #521
post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is completely untrue. Until a few days ago, RT was openly available throughout Europe. As far as I know, it is still available in America, which protects freedom of speech in its constitution.

RT isn’t a western media organization. I would be shocked if you could find just one actual major mainstream western media organization that tells the other side of the story.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/02/23/tucker-carls...

Here, shock yourself.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#594
post #474
post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also the point of terrorist attacks: that the people will be so outraged when they learn about the terrorists' motives for the attack that they will rise up and "do something" about their government. Americans can't be this shallow. This is ridiculous. THINK about what you are suggesting with these sanctions regimes. Sanctions are a crime against humanity, too.

Sanctions are not a crime against humanity. Nobody is forced to accept your currency, or to trade with you. Nobody is forced to provide dollar currency to the murderous, lying regime which has invaded Ukraine. Many Russians are supporting this evil war, out of cowardice or ignorance. They should share some of the pain. That may help them to wake up.

When sanctions result in a population starving, or children dying because they don't get medical care because of sanctions, they are crimes against humanity.

>They should share some of the pain.

Such utter totalitarian-authoritarian nonsense. Did 9/11 stop the US from bombing innocent people in the Middle East?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#595
post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be insane to believe that. Would saying Gdańsk will be neutral and Germany can transport troops between East Prussia and rest of country stop Hitler? No, those are just pretexts. He'd just go further and further and attack while you'd be way way worse position.

Hitler didnt sit publicly on a border with troops threatening to invade for 3 months with one single demand. Putin isnt Hitler. He's a monster hes just not that specific monster.

that choice between giving in to "small" russian demands vs. fighting has played of in history multiple times and even specifically with Russia. For example after signing MRP with Germany to divide up europe between them, Russia amassed huge army on the borders of baltic states and Finland and demanded allowing Russian military bases in these countries and establishment of russian friendly governments.

Finland went to war over it, took huge losses but managed to fight back well enough to stay independent even though some territory was lost.

Countries that gave in to these demands without much resistance to avoid huge bloodshed were occupied shortly and lost their independence for 50 years. Multiple rounds of deportation to siberia and executions of anyone who had military, police or government background were done over the next years so in the end it's not clear if the loss of life was any smaller for these countries if it would have been if they fought back.

So in hindsight it seems better choice was to fight back and have a chance of freedom.

PS. it's not single demand at all, you should read more of Putins speeches and writings, especially those meant for Russian audiences. For example the one televised on 21.02.2022 where he goes on and on about some mystical "west" that has tried to destroy the russian for over a century and how ukraine has no right to exist anyway etc. That NATO talk is mostly for western audiences, internally the message seems to be more about re-establishing the russian empire (which he seems to think is god given right) and talk about superiority of the russian civilization (ruskiy mir). So everything indeed sounds eerily similar to sittuation and delusions that led to WW2.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#596
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How good are people being bombed in Ukraine cities feel? Only the Russian people can stop this.

Ever lived under a dictator? Ever tried to stop him from doing something? Ever done either of the above while having a family you care about? At the end of the day, no sane person would place their family in mortal danger to maybe possibly potentially make life easier for a large number of unknown far away people.

I read this earlier today and it clicked so well, “no country was born a democracy”.

Every democratic country in the world had at one point a few brave souls who were both sane and put themselves and their families in mortal danger to “maybe possibly potentially make life easier for a large number of unknown [not yet born] people”.

So yeah, it happens and is relatively common in history. I hope the Russian people find some extra courage and get Putin to step away from Ukraine and also Russia.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, intervention in Yugoslavia wasn’t a war started by the US. The Kuwait war was after an invasion by Iraq and at the invitation of the government there, and the US were restrained enough to halt at the Iraq border. The Syrian war was not started by the US, and it has played a minor part there. In fact, it is Russia that has indiscriminately bombed Syrian cities and targeted civilians and hospitals there. Afghanis…

The Iraq war was a terrible error but it still can't be compared to Ukraine. America had no plans to colonise Iraq or absorb it into its empire. Despite the enormous death and suffering the war caused, America's aim was naive altruism: getting rid of an unquestionably evil dictator who used WMDs on his own people. There are conspiracy theories that America invaded to steal Iraq's oil but they are not plausible.

>Despite the enormous death and suffering the war caused, America's aim was naive altruism.

Invading Iraq was on the agenda way before 9/11. The people that decided it are anything but naive.

>There are conspiracy theories that America invaded to steal Iraq's oil but they are not plausible.

Why not? The second largest oil producer in the world is invaded because of altruism out of their great heart. Geopolitics have nothing to do with that.

I believe is someone is naive here is you. At least you should respect as a valid and plausible theory(not calling it conspiracy in order to denigrate it) that the biggest army in the world are interested in controlling the energy producing countries just like any other empires before. And remember that was USA the ones that ousted the British Empire from Persia and the ones that toppled the democracy there.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#598
post #14
post #11

As a side question, how similar is Putin's war in Ukraine to the numerous wars started by U.S. (say, in the middle East, Yugoslavia)? Are these fair to compare? I'm trying to understand the scale of Putin's decision, not to justify it or engage in whataboutism.

Putin launched a war against Ukraine in order to conquer it the traditional sense, ie to replace the existing government with his own government. The long term goal is for Russia to control this country's government. The wars started by the US typically have the goal of establishing a democratic government. Japan is an example of a successful outcome. Iraq has a functioning democracy now. This policy is often critici…

I wanted to live in a world you presented: benevolent power spreads the wealth around the world. Unfortunately, it is just a fairytale for little children.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#599
post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either you believe in democracy, or you do not. If the Ukrainian people want to join the EU or NATO, and our people want them to join us as well, they have the right to make that choice as free sovereign people, and we should back them up. Any other response is itself subjugation, and capitulation to terror.

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#600
post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be easier to fix your own government. General strike. They can arrest protesters, but they cannot arrest the entire working population.

"They" are also Russians. The key here would be convincing members of the police / army that they should work for the people, not Putin.

Exactly, and not just the police. Some 20-30% of the population are actively supporting the current regime and will stand for it. Even if all state propaganda magically disappears and gets instantly replaced by the West propaganda, it'll take months and months for them to change their stance. People hate being wrong, and even more they hate admitting being wrong.

It is a civil war kind of situation we're talking about.

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