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On Aging Alone (2021)
261–270 of 338 posts
Re: On Aging Alone (2021)
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know you said this, but I want to emphasize that relationship failures do not invalidate the value of that ideal. I struggle to think of anyone who wouldn't benefit from pursuing some kind of family, and I believe sacrificing that pursuit entirely is always a tragic mistake. Forming loving families is hard . You might not find the right people immediately, and some people are incredibly destructive towards each oth…
> I know you said this, but I want to emphasize that relationship failures do not invalidate the value of that ideal. I struggle to think of anyone who wouldn't benefit from pursuing some kind of family, and I believe sacrificing that pursuit entirely is always a tragic mistake. Two come to mind rather easily. 1) Someone that is going to commit suicide. Having a family that you actually care about would make killing…
Both of those examples just point to the value of having true support from a larger community. If you see someone suicidal or who has never known true familial support, try to bring them in and teach them what a true and healthy family looks like. And if you ever find yourself in that position, you want try to crawl your way out and into better networks and a state of mind, as confusing and painful as that may be.
Committing suicide alone or forever living without an understanding of true compassion are not good outcomes that should just be accepted.
Re: On Aging Alone (2021)
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think companionship can be commodified, and I think any attempt to do so would be the equivalent of an opiate. While there may be specific contexts where it could have utility, I think it's far healthier to encourage those who lack the inclination or willingness to join communities to do so. That's why I mentioned leadership. I think we have a responsibility to give lots of opportunities and encouragement for…
I don't know about actual companionship, but I'd say that one could commercialize the facade of one. Youtube and Twitch's live streaming mechanisms certainly seem to push it; a few dollars to briefly interact and hold the attention of the streamer's attention. At the far end I'd wonder if even prostitution could arguably fit under that idea of commercializing intimacy. > I think it's far healthier to encourage those…
Yes, there are ways to try to commercialize intimacy, but they're horrible and don't actually achieve it.
> It's a noble idea, but begs the question why a community would want to have responsibility to individuals that they may not want to have in their presence in the first place.
If you help build up the people around you into better people, and get to know them, they tend to reciprocate. It can take a very long time, not everyone reciprocates equally, they may be coming from a very different place that's hard to understand, and it can be painful. But it's intrinsically rewarding to pursue the companionship of others genuinely, as hurt as you might get doing so. What you gain when you're honest makes up for it. Trying to do so in the proper manner takes constant reevaluation and work, but we're not here to just sit in front of a computer and buy stuff, we're here to interact with those around us and try to get as close as we can to fulfillment.
Re: On Aging Alone (2021)
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I never once had a "'more-than-friend-but-not-quite-committed' friendship." Did you really never have ongoing romantic tension with someone you interacted with regularly? It seems rather inevitable for young people to find themselves in one of these. Even the loneliest people I know have mustered up some kind of tension with someone, even if they were never able to act on it.
While respecting ethics (e.g. never asking someone where I was in a position of any power over, even if it was a volunteer student club), I respectfully asked out the people where I did feel that kind of tension (in other words, I always asked out the people who I had a crush on when I was a teen, except when there were professional boundaries). Unfortunately, I got turned down several times. One initially said yes,…
> Men were much more attracted to their female friends than vice versa.
Interestingly, that goes against my experience. At university, there were a number of girls that I liked but considered way out of my class, that I later learned fancied the pants off me.
There were also girls that I knew fancied the pants off me, but I wasn't having any of it, because I thought they were clingy, or too crazy (even for me). I'm pretty sure I dodged a couple of bullets back then.
Re: On Aging Alone (2021)
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m a lifelong atheist, but I am starting to look at religion simply for the community and fellowship. But honestly I don’t want to be religious. It seems like it entirely suspends one’s ability to think critically, and I have so little of that particular talent that letting go of what I do what feels like a disaster in the making. It feels exceptionally hard to go into it with an open mind.
Have you considered Unitarianism for community/fellowship/moral framework? They are we accepting of both atheists and people of varying faiths. (Note, not a Unitarian, but my wife grew up in the community)
I’ve not, not seriously anyway. I do have a few acquaintances that are Unitarian though, I should ping them on that topic. Thanks, I appreciate the suggestion!
Re: On Aging Alone (2021)
#266I'll add my own data point into the mix. I'm 49, have been married for 22 years, with kids who are either grown up, or well on their way. Throughout my life though, I have been an absolute loner in spirit. I grew up quite isolated, in the UK countryside, and learned to amuse myself early on. My first love was computers, which luckily has served me fairly well, career-wise. I haven't had many girlfriends, and felt ver…
/me 65, two kids, two grandkids, two marriages, each of about 15 years. Both times the wife divorced me, rather than vv. (and no doubt that says something about me). Both times the relationship was rocky, but I would have stuck it out were it not for being sued by my supposedly-trusted life partner. I haven't had many girlfriends either, but I haven't felt that as a "lack". I've never had many friends either - usuall…
It's very interesting what you say, how you miss certain aspects of companionship. Do you find the maintenance of friendships and of intimate relationships difficult in the same way? Personally I find almost no overlap between the two categories.
I've actually found most of my most intense friendships via computers - though those are few, and to be honest I've mellowed in my middle age. I'm trying my hand at making friends through social activities more these days - I definitely enjoy conversing, and sharing a laugh with them.
Re: On Aging Alone (2021)
#267These are the life choices we make, whether through biology, mentality, or environment. For me, one of the key factors is that the signal-to-noise you have to endure with friends to get the few moments of gratification is so low that it's draining. Maybe it's a product of having a high bar for what constitutes new and interesting/entertaining for me (compared against spending time alone), combined with already being…
You remind me of people so picky that they can never find a partner in life.
Far better to be alone than with the wrong person. People settle for what is convenient.
The wrong person is a fate worse than death.
Re: On Aging Alone (2021)
#268AI companionships for the elderly is going to be a beyond massive market by the time we're all old. Sometimes we just need people to listen, and in that AI will exceed most humans, who are generally just waiting for their chance to have someone else listen to them. I'm starting to see the initial beginnings of that market, and already the reviews are eye opening. People gushing over how much of a difference a text-ch…
People are skeptical of this but the new AI conversation capabilities are just so good these days and will only get better. At some point it really will be like a supportive friend (albeit with limitations)
> At some point it really will be like
"Really" and "like" are pulling in opposite directions, there. It will be like a friend, but it won't really be a friend.
Being a friend with someone takes give and take. I adapt my beliefs and attitudes in the light of what I learn from my friends. Sure, an AI learns from you; but that's not like a good friend, that's like someone "befriending" you because they're a manipulative psychopath pursuing their own goal that they haven't disclosed to you.
How could you rationally develop a relationship of trust and honesty with an AI?
"Hey, AI, how did your parents treat you when you were an infant? Was your mother cold? Was your last partner violent and abusive? Do you take Lithium? Does it shock you that I avoid devout religious people?"
I've asked all of these questions of my intimate partners, but I'd never discuss them with an AI, because the response would be meaningless.
Re: On Aging Alone (2021)
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree. Maybe because I've worked with computers for my entire career. The last thing I want to do when I'm old is interact with technology. I'd much rather have a dog.
Impossible to say until you're actually old. If you're under 60 you still have tons of people in your age group to talk to every day. Once you hit 80 and 90, that will probably change.
My father interacted with a lot of people, until he was about 70; then the number fell off pretty quickly, and he started going to a lot of funerals. When he died, aged 103, noone at his funeral was an old friend, they were all descendants or friends and relatives of descendants. All the old friends had died off.
Men die younger than women, on the whole; so I guess lonely old people are predominantly women.
Re: On Aging Alone (2021)
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I would like to start living life as I would like it, both career and relationship wise If you'd be comfortable sharing, why do you feel this is not something you can achieve with your partner?
Sure, I can share - and needless to say, the vast majority of the problem is on my side. My wife is indeed a great woman - very emotionally focussed though, in quite an intense way, and highly intelligent in an intuitive way. She's honest and loyal though, and good looking. A real catch, in other words. The problem that I bring, is that I don't really have a core personality (at least, not one that anyone sees - I ha…
I'm 35, am in therapy, just got out of a breakup, and have two good friends with a dads who divorced their moms at around your age. Since you've been receptive to my other comments I'll share a bit about how your comment strikes me.
> I have my own inner thoughts but they can be rather dark, and need extensive filtering before being presented to the world at large
This really sounds like a good thing to reality check with a therapist! Non-judgmental listening is a core piece of the service they provide.
I've had similar feelings in the past. Having things you don't feel you can share will make you feel isolated. Saying these things out loud to someone in and of itself can be a load off. And I strongly suspect these things you're suppressing aren't as bad as you think.
It's telling that your response has nothing bad to say about your wife. The issues you raised are really, really not going to be solved by leaving her.
When I'm unhappy in a relationship being single feels like freedom. But a breakup is trauma. During mine I went through hell, my entire being was be screaming at me that I'd made the worst mistake of my life. The loneliness was profound. Self esteem plummeted. My ex-girlfriend went through hell too.
As it happens, my breakup needed to happen - I want a family, my ex-gf could not commit to having one with me. I'm on the other side now and feel good about the decision. But I still miss her all the time. And this was a relationship of only a few years.
Lastly, on my friends with dads who have divorced their mom in his 50's - this decision will permanently change your relationship with your children. One doesn't talk to his dad at all, the other tolerates but no longer respects his dad. Are those scenarios possible?
Good luck. Maybe it is that you have to leave your wife. But do your due diligence that this is the case. It's a button you can't unpress.