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On Aging Alone (2021)

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Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#41

Post by stuxnet79 »

vinceguidry wrote: post #31

I have always had a tough time applying the tool of reason to the problem of loneliness. In a way, I don't feel like I've ever been lonely. Not that I have never felt the same way that people who do describe themselves as lonely feel. I have and still often do. The 'problem' is that I've always been able to isolate the reason I'm feeling that way and administer some kind of intervention. And I know, that getting olde…

You seem to be applying a cultural slant to this. I'm curious, how does it differ outside of America in your perspective?

I agree that part of the problem at least in America, is a mismatch in expectations caused by a media-infused, image-obsessed culture. There is a need to "perform", be larger than life and be interesting. It is incredibly suffocating and makes relationships more transactional than they should be.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#42

Post by Talanes »

aortega wrote: post #36
XorNot wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure everyone wants to date 20 year old models No they really don't. This is an idea pushed by sociopaths who are somewhere between trash and downright dangerous. They can't date older women because older women spot their bullshit a mile away and steer clear.

>They can't date older women because older women spot their bullshit a mile away and steer clear. I think you should stop demonizing men's natural sexual preferences. Key word here is natural, we don't choose what we like. Nature choose for us, and young women are better at having children. Same reason young girls choose tall, rich men, because they are better at surviving and have more resources for raising children…

We don't know what the default state of human attraction is because we don't have access to a control population of human beings without the same shared societal history of the rest of us.

Which is to say, it's incorrect to broaden your personal attractions to all men, and especially incorrect to try and couch it in some argument of biological naturalism.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#43

Post by vinceguidry »

stuxnet79 wrote: post #41
vinceguidry wrote: post #31

I have always had a tough time applying the tool of reason to the problem of loneliness. In a way, I don't feel like I've ever been lonely. Not that I have never felt the same way that people who do describe themselves as lonely feel. I have and still often do. The 'problem' is that I've always been able to isolate the reason I'm feeling that way and administer some kind of intervention. And I know, that getting olde…

You seem to be applying a cultural slant to this. I'm curious, how does it differ outside of America in your perspective? I agree that part of the problem at least in America, is a mismatch in expectations caused by a media-infused, image-obsessed culture. There is a need to "perform", be larger than life and be interesting. It is incredibly suffocating and makes relationships more transactional than they should be.

Other cultures just don't seem to be as relentlessly status-hungry. Like, I've met homeless people in Colombia with better self-esteem than well-off Americans. Like our visible affluence is eating us alive. Old women in a bunch of Asian countries gather together in public places for some activity or other, often something physically active like ping pong or dancing. America for the most part seems to have lost the concept of public space, every space is private and to be monetized unless explicitly deemed otherwise.

This dynamic: "just about any difference between what someone's life is like and what they want it to be seems to manifest in their psyche as loneliness," just doesn't seem to be how people from other cultures process that difference. They don't externalize that difference in a way that makes themselves out to be the victim and deserving of better. They seem at least a little more willing to own up to their own role in it.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#44

Post by wfme »

wly_cdgr wrote: post #18

I am only half the author's age but, in my limited experience, the only thing worse than loneliness is the stifling weight of the impositions and compromises that come with virtually all relationships. The ones that offer enough in return to offset this weight make up the tiniest minority

You are describing transactional relationships, but there are other types of more self perpetuating relationships. Transactional relationships are built on the expectation for reciprocation, so every interaction is performed with the expected outcome in mind. Within a transactional relationship, bonds are broken the moment one of you doesn't hold up your end. For this reason, these relationships tend to be fragile and do not last.

In contrast, bonds between two parties can be much stronger in relational relationships. These non-transactional relationships are meant to be long-term and often exists between parents and children, or between long term romantic partners. In a relational relationship, both parties are willing to make sacrifices for the sake of their bond. They are both concerned with the perspective, needs, and desires of the other party. To a certain extent, individuals are willing to give without expecting anything in return. This helps to build strong bonds that are difficult to break.

I would suggest trying to seek out and develop more relational relationships as they can be extremely rewarding without taking the toll you describe.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#45

Post by NalNezumi »

I was expecting some wisdom, at least some insight or sympathy from the article, supposed to be written by 80 year old.

All I now feel is pity for her; early in her essay she snobs on "people feeling lonely around loving families" - comparing them to orphans that know true loneliness (and by the tone, she too). Then just a paragraph or two later she reveals she had a family; husband, kids and grandchildren. A couple of paragraphs later she also reveals she have "friends closeby she can visit weekly".

I feel pity because she seems to be so self absorbed (diva) in her loneliness; her suffering is special, gives her insight, don't you dare to understand it. her description of her behavior eery reminds me of my friend who self claim "the most introvert person" and love for solitude while it's clear that she longs for human contact behind the mask of "comfortable with solitude"; if you dare question her introvert identity you can except fierce resistance, almost like if you attacked some radicals political/religious belief.

And after painfully getting to the end of it, she rabble about statistic she obviously haven't read carefully enough (her take on the increase in suicide in Japan due Covid is embarrassingly off and irrelevant to the point she was trying to make)

And to no ones surprise, the solution is again "authority should do *something*".

Frankly, from the picture she have painted of the lonely man that pride himself of his solitude (and suffering), her vague call for the authority to do something seems shallow and hollow

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#46

Post by lurquer »

paleotrope wrote: post #35
starkd wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life never make a pretty woman your wife, so for my personal point of view, get an ugly girl to marry you.

Great song…

The unspoken happy secret behind that point of view is that the ugly girl who loves you will become, in your eyes, the most beautiful woman in the world.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#47

Post by colechristensen »

stuxnet79 wrote: post #39
wly_cdgr wrote: post #18

I am only half the author's age but, in my limited experience, the only thing worse than loneliness is the stifling weight of the impositions and compromises that come with virtually all relationships. The ones that offer enough in return to offset this weight make up the tiniest minority

Your last sentence hints at why so many relationships fail these days. Most people do not look at relationships as something that requires effort and needs to be nurtured. Instead they look at them as transactional affairs, and like any transaction extracting more value than you are willing to give back is the modus operandi.

I have a few relationships that just don’t need to be nurtured. Months could go by with littlev or no contact with no harm done alternatively sometimes they are every day interactions. It is not easy to find that kind of kinship, but when you do they aren’t things that need to be intentionally fed. (This isn’t of course how you should treat your mother or your spouse)

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#48

Post by throwawayboise »

wly_cdgr wrote: post #18

I am only half the author's age but, in my limited experience, the only thing worse than loneliness is the stifling weight of the impositions and compromises that come with virtually all relationships. The ones that offer enough in return to offset this weight make up the tiniest minority

I'm getting close to 60. I live alone since my wife moved out 20 years ago. The closest friend I have was a co-worker who retired at the end of 2021 and I have not seen him since.

I enjoy it. I can do whatever I want, whenever I want. I don't have to consider anyone else when I decide what I'm going to do. If I want to stay at the gym for an extra hour, I do. Nobody will complain about it when I get home. If I don't feel like doing the dishes tonight, I don't. If I want to sleep until noon, I do. Nobody will wake me up. Everything that happens in my life is a result of what I decide to do (or not do).

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#49

Post by colechristensen »

azemetre wrote: post #24
wly_cdgr wrote: post #18

I am only half the author's age but, in my limited experience, the only thing worse than loneliness is the stifling weight of the impositions and compromises that come with virtually all relationships. The ones that offer enough in return to offset this weight make up the tiniest minority

Can you explain what you mean by this? It sounds like a contradiction, loneliness is bad but friendship is worse?

Bad friends can be worse than no friends, and a series of bad luck could make a person believe that the only friends are bad ones (alternatively unrealistic expectations could cause this too)

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#50

Post by kromem »

AI companionships for the elderly is going to be a beyond massive market by the time we're all old.

Sometimes we just need people to listen, and in that AI will exceed most humans, who are generally just waiting for their chance to have someone else listen to them.

I'm starting to see the initial beginnings of that market, and already the reviews are eye opening. People gushing over how much of a difference a text-chat (and not a great one at that) AI was during the pandemic, etc.

When they are actually talking using voices like the ones Microsoft just showcased, with avatars past the uncanny valley, available 24/7, remember details, etc?

We're approaching a world I think beyond most of our imaginations faster than we realize.

There's a whole host of problems we'll inherit as generations pass that they didn't have to deal with, but other problems they did may not be ours to bear.

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