On Aging Alone (2021) • Hacker News Board

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#161

Post by 9530jh9054ven » Sat, May 21, 2022, 8:50 AM UTC

didericis wrote: post #134

qgin wrote: post #91

Loving families are easy to idealize from afar. How many families actually fit that profile? I’m not entirely sure. This is not a jaded attempt to say the pursuit of relationships or family aren’t worthwhile. I just want to set some context here for those feeling lonely, for those who feel like they are standing outside in the cold on the street looking through windows into warm living rooms full of people with warm…

I know you said this, but I want to emphasize that relationship failures do not invalidate the value of that ideal. I struggle to think of anyone who wouldn't benefit from pursuing some kind of family, and I believe sacrificing that pursuit entirely is always a tragic mistake. Forming loving families is hard . You might not find the right people immediately, and some people are incredibly destructive towards each oth…

> I know you said this, but I want to emphasize that relationship failures do not invalidate the value of that ideal. I struggle to think of anyone who wouldn't benefit from pursuing some kind of family, and I believe sacrificing that pursuit entirely is always a tragic mistake.

Two come to mind rather easily.

1) Someone that is going to commit suicide. Having a family that you actually care about would make killing yourself more complicated. Alone, someone alone could go through with the act without actually hurting anyone else.

2) Someone who's entirety of experiences with family have been... complicated. Just as a thought experiment; say someone raised raised a child by punching them hard enough to bruise or draw blood for every little slight, real or perceived. Then ensured that the child understood that they were being hit and injured out of love.

How would that child would view family after enduring that when they become a young adult?

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#162

Post by seydor » Sat, May 21, 2022, 8:52 AM UTC

> I have had the sense that my “real life,” the place where I belong and where there is no loneliness, is somewhere else out there in the world, although I can’t name or find it

I found that virtual worlds like Second Life have a lot of old people. Those have been there for decades and their virtual friends are probably their most stable connection over time. Same goes for younger people who move around a lot and change friendships, loneliness leads them to seek virtual friends. I think that's why Zuck is interested in metaverse: Europe and Japan are already old, US, CA, China and the rich world will become old soon enough. Technology can provide a lot to people who can no longer travel etc.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#163

Post by frontman1988 » Sat, May 21, 2022, 9:00 AM UTC

dismantlethesun wrote: post #153

frontman1988 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40 is the prime age for men. You can easily get a younger gf from Thailand/Vietnam/Philippines with minimum effort. And you never know you might find true love (if it exists) as well.

As a disclaimer, I’m very much in favor of international relationships in general but if you are trying to date someone because of economic prowess substituting for physical attraction then you are better suited to doing that in your own country. Marriage is hard and throwing another culture values and the immigrant experience into the mix can often times make things more difficult. As relationship advise, i say it’s…

It really depends on your country as well. For example in the developed nations there is no real poverty rather it is caused mostly due to personal failing. Most of the poor in America still marry each other, rather than seeking a relationship with a richer stabler spouse. I would say the poor in America can't be compared to the poor in South Asian countries, they hardly know the harrowing desperation that true poverty brings. Also the cultural values of such countries are actually quite positive when it comes to marriage. They prioritize a long term marriage, are ready to compromise and are family focussed. Usually it's a win win situation in most cases for someone who hasn't been able to find a mate in 40 years.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#164

Post by Angostura » Sat, May 21, 2022, 9:01 AM UTC

postalrat wrote: post #62

throwawayboise wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Maybe because I've worked with computers for my entire career. The last thing I want to do when I'm old is interact with technology. I'd much rather have a dog.

You are interacting with users here. What if we were all bots?

What if we're all dogs? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_...

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#165

Post by strangegecko » Sat, May 21, 2022, 9:03 AM UTC

refactor_master wrote: post #110

ldd wrote: post #93

As I get older (30 now), and perhaps spend more time alone, I feel that I do not mind this process as much as I thought I would. Just as usual, I am able to read books and spend time with my dog. I'm only weary of the fact that I do talk to myself out loud every once in a while and there is the possibility that in due time, if it is not already the case, my lonesomeness may eventually be misinterpreted as madness.

I feel the exact opposite at 30. Every leisurely lone time that I once used to enjoy now feels like pointless escapism and filler, until the next meaningful social interaction. Until recently I had even been an avid solo traveler until I hit the wall of pointlessness hard. I can’t exactly point to what it is, but a guess would be “adult life after studies”. Now that I’ve experienced the rush of a handful of different…

> Every leisurely lone time that I once used to enjoy now feels like pointless escapism and filler,

This is exactly how I feel. I've been looking towards early retirement through frugality as a means of escape from what has been a very stressful life to me, a life where I couldn't enjoy much because I pretty much constantly felt overwhelmed (almost bullied by the world in general) and anxious.

But as I'm slowly able to give myself more room, as I realize I absolutely could hide out at home and protect myself from that stress that's been tormenting since childhood, doing only what I really want to do, I'm also increasingly confronted with an emptiness, with not knowing what it is that I "want to do".

I suffer from depression though (which comes with the symptom of anhedonia, the difficult to enjoy activities), and I don't have meaningful social interaction in my life. Doesn't that interaction give you pointers on how to spend time by yourself? I've always imagined shared projects or goals could fill some of the emptiness I feel by providing purpose. I remember team activities as being motivating.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#166

Post by te » Sat, May 21, 2022, 9:05 AM UTC

taylorius wrote: post #133

I'll add my own data point into the mix. I'm 49, have been married for 22 years, with kids who are either grown up, or well on their way. Throughout my life though, I have been an absolute loner in spirit. I grew up quite isolated, in the UK countryside, and learned to amuse myself early on. My first love was computers, which luckily has served me fairly well, career-wise. I haven't had many girlfriends, and felt ver…

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1429941683362357250.html

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#167

Post by Tenoke » Sat, May 21, 2022, 9:09 AM UTC

didericis wrote: post #151

Tenoke wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How about we not do that and try to actually cultivate real life communities and families through more leadership, planned activities, persistent encouragement, etc. How about we don't ignore things that can help actual people and leave them worse off just because in theory there are also nicer sounding solutions.

I'm not sure I'm interpreting you correctly, but if you're claiming what I'm talking about is just theoretical, real life communities have existed throughout the entirety of our species. That doesn't mean there isn't a place for companion AIs, I just think it's horrible to consider them as anything other than a narcotic. They might work as a replacement for companionship in tragic situations where there are no other…

Real life communities have existed yet we still have lonely people so suggesting we dont work on a solution that helps them because those exist seems like cruelty borne out of idealism.

>I don't see how it's impractical to encourage people to hang out with each other.

You are now writing as if you just promoted communities while your original comment I replied to specifically started with 'How about we not do that'.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#168

Post by NalNezumi » Sat, May 21, 2022, 9:15 AM UTC

qgin wrote: post #91

Loving families are easy to idealize from afar. How many families actually fit that profile? I’m not entirely sure. This is not a jaded attempt to say the pursuit of relationships or family aren’t worthwhile. I just want to set some context here for those feeling lonely, for those who feel like they are standing outside in the cold on the street looking through windows into warm living rooms full of people with warm…

The WaitbutWhy (funny) post about "How to pick your life partner"[0] might be shedding a light to what you're trying to say/observe.

The ladder analogy is the most apt one. Everyone single think they're at the bottom of the ladder looking up at "happy couples" but in reality they are in the middle of the ladder, with unhappy bickering couples below them.

A lot of people with this attitude rushes in to relationships, drinking the coolaid, and people (kids) that have seen the parents/friends/siblings in their rushed relationships usually gets a more realistic view of it all

[0]https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/02/pick-life-partner.html

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#169

Post by zelphirkalt » Sat, May 21, 2022, 9:16 AM UTC

qgin wrote: post #91

Loving families are easy to idealize from afar. How many families actually fit that profile? I’m not entirely sure. This is not a jaded attempt to say the pursuit of relationships or family aren’t worthwhile. I just want to set some context here for those feeling lonely, for those who feel like they are standing outside in the cold on the street looking through windows into warm living rooms full of people with warm…

It does not even need to be families. Even finding a suitable partner is hard. I have seen people being in relationships which sucked. They are having ahard time ending them, enduring the disaster. But at least it is not as much effort to leave a non-marriage relationship as a marriage, usually. I think it is worth trying to find a good partner, because if you find someone suitable, you will have struck gold. The statistics do not look too good though, at least from what I have observed.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#170

Post by ffwd » Sat, May 21, 2022, 9:18 AM UTC

I think we can't trust our emotions. Evolutionary speaking it was probably a good idea for the brain to send a signal for us to be with the group so that we don't stray off alone, and as such this manifested in some brain function that sends the signal of loneliness like the OP describes from his school days.

However I think the issue is that we think these emotions tell us something grander about our lives but I don't think they do. I think they are like when you put your hand on a hot stove, the neurons fire and you feel pain. Loneliness as described in the blog post is just as fleeting and biological/instant as this.

I think even a person who is surrounded by people all the time can suddenly get this emotion of loneliness if he suddenly finds himself alone and everyone else is out to a party. Even more evidence that it is probably just a fleeting biological response like any other. It's in _combination_ with analytical skills and abstract reasoning that this biological response takes root and becomes something more than it actually was evolutionary, and thus becomes a bigger deal than it actually is.

It is a lack of bigger goals and short-medium term goals / meaning that excaserbates the analyzing of the loneliness response. And that's the great sadness of human life imo, we basically have a bunch of primal emotional responses + an abstract story telling and meaning driven neocortex which aren't really compatible with each other directly and do not communicate with each other in the same language when they are actually 2 separate physical systems.

One must not takes ones emotions seriously but rather always analyze in the abstract and then come to some sort of peace with the life one has and also plan for the future and look into the past. Emotions like loneliness should be seen as mere guides and not tadpoles imo.