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DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

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Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#221

Post by somenameforme »

dmurray wrote: post #179
somenameforme wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expected return on a machine and profit margin on that machine are literally identical. Imagine there's a hypothetical $1 machine where we simply remove variance. So you insert $1 and you get $0.75 back. It should be clear that for each $1 of revenue, the casino profits $0.25. This is a 25% profit margin. Variance can add some noise, but does not change the long-term expectation, which is what the regulations are bas…

That sounds intuitive, but that's just not how revenue is defined for a business like a casino. The casino had $0.25 revenue, and its profit is whatever is left from the $0.25 after paying for heat, light, maintenance, cashiers, security, etc. Other businesses are treated like this too. If you are a high frequency trading firm and you buy 1000 shares stock for $99.99 each and sell for $100, you didn't have $100k of r…

Yip, I agree. I'm aware of gross gaming revenue and was involved in the industry in a past life, though obviously never filing as a casino. The thing that misled me, at a glance, was their costs - $3.5 billion. I wasn't aware there'd been massive consolidation in the casino industry, and thought I was looking at a casino's costs/revenue (in which $3.5 billion would be insane without it including losses), not a sprawling corporate enterprise.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#224

Post by photonthug »

monkeywork wrote: post #157
photonthug wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but not relevant. Police and legality do not need to be involved with certain kinds of casino justice. Security may just offer to beat your ass if you won't cease and desist, avoiding the paperwork. Could be bluff but they know where cameras are and have cop friends..

You need to check a calendar and see the current year - the days of Casinos' roughing up card counters is long long long gone. Might be great for your screenplay or fan fiction but doesn't match reality.

Strange that you can be so confident about this with private security when even actual police are sometimes involved in cases of excessive force, corruption, coverups. Besides, whatever your personal knowledge/experience is it can't be vast enough to prove a negative here, and only one counter example is needed.

Regardless of the year I think you might want to reconsider your overly confident notions about fiction/reality or at least the condescending tone. I don't know what is institutionalized in what places, but have been threatened by casino security. Fuck around and find out I guess

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#225

Post by roygbiv2 »

sph wrote: post #211
Eji1700 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vegas makes a fuckload of money off everyone who thinks they’re smart but doesn’t understand statistics

There are only two types of people: those that believe they can outsmart the house, and those that never gamble.

That's deffinately not true, I used to go to the casino under no illusion I'd come out poorer. I'd just do it because it was fun.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#226

Post by stavros »

yreg wrote: post #214
sph wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are only two types of people: those that believe they can outsmart the house, and those that never gamble.

If that was true, the house wouldn't throw people out for suspected card counting.

Aka "we don't want you here because you might win".

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#227

Post by GuB-42 »

sgjohnson wrote: post #219
sph wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are only two types of people: those that believe they can outsmart the house, and those that never gamble.

And card counters.

Do they still exist? They have closed most of the gaps previously exploited by card counters, and continuous shufflers are everywhere.

I think the only ones who can make money are those playing poker and are really good at it. That's because they are playing against other players and not the bank. They still have to beat the rake.

I'm not even sure comp players, that is those who play to get non-cash rewards like travels, restaurant and hotel stays while minimizing their losses can still have an advantage. I heard that casinos calculate comps by expected losses, making sure they stay on top (statistically).

And they are cheaters, but it is like saying thieves can make money.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#228

Post by merlincorey »

mmaunder wrote: post #117

Bomb threat last year caused evacuation: https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/14/def_con_bomb_scare/ In 2018 we had aggressive room searches post the Vegas shooting that caused a lot of friction: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/security-theater... Point being that it’s been a rough ride over the last few years. Combine that with corporate events probably being far more lucrative for Caesars I.e suits drink…

The bomb threat wasn't even related to Defcon, though.

I heard it both from Dark Tangent and several high level Goons.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#230

Post by merlincorey »

verandaguy wrote: post #95
PedroBatista wrote: post #13

Not a fan of what DEF CON has become in the last years, so I selfishly hope it somehow "goes away" and reborn in a more technical and actual hacker note. Too many "security researchers", "staff engineers" and people playing politics. But I suspect they will have no problem finding another venue, sponsor money has been flowing quite well, so I wish them well.

I don't have a ton of love for politicking, but security researchers and staff engineers, a lot of the time, are people who either have a career in a really interesting area in infosec and can bring a lot to the table as teachers/presenters, or people who want to get into that area and who'd benefit massively from a place like DEF CON considering how accessible its talks, demos, and villages are to people of all skil…

> TOOOL still has some of the best workshops and tutorials on the conference floor and usually has some people who'll talk about breaking open Medecos or Fichets to anyone who'll listen.

While you're over there look around for the Tamper Evident Village and we'll happily demonstrate and allow you to try removing Tamper Evident Seals of various kinds.

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