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DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

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Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#151

Post by throwaway2037 »

smt88 wrote: post #37
c0pium wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are certainly a lot of DefCon attendees who think that this describes them. In my observation they are all very incorrect, usually humorously so fortunately.

My first thought was that GP was saying DefCon attendees would be counting cards, which is an effective and legal way to beat the house[1] (until you're caught and banned from the casino). 1. https://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/nightlife/2016/04/...

> effective ... way to beat the house

Statistically, it is not effective. Your card counting needs to be (basically) perfect, and you need very deep pockets to handle extended drawdowns.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#152

Post by px43 »

paxys wrote: post #47
taywrobel wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without robust and easily scaled infrastructure in place ahead of time, an organic DDOS is one of the most difficult situations to mitigate. Not much can be done in terms of traffic shaping, rate limiting, or bot detection.

An HN front page “DDoS” is like 20K hits. This isn't some complex scaling challenge. Any website on the internet should be able to handle it, especially a purely informational one.

This also blew up on every social media and news site as well, not just here.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#153

Post by somenameforme »

zmgsabst wrote: post #139
somenameforme wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be sure to subtract expenses. So for 2022 you have 2500 for casino, 500 for food, 1500 for hotel, 800 for "other." And there's definitely some counterintuitive accounting going on there, because that 2500 would imply a profit margin of 41% on casino, but Vegas regulations require gaming machines to pay out at least 75%, leaving a profit margin max of 25%. The card games and other games of skill wouldn't have such res…

You seem to misunderstand the 75% rate: The requirement is that the expected value for a play on a machine is >75%. And most are >90%. But that’s not a cap on profit margin, as 25% of the expense for a play may be more than the cost of that play. Eg, having a machine that costs $1 with $0.75 expected return (and $0.25 revenue for the casino) may only cost the casino $0.10 a play — which would be a 60% profit margin.

Expected return on a machine and profit margin on that machine are literally identical. Imagine there's a hypothetical $1 machine where we simply remove variance. So you insert $1 and you get $0.75 back. It should be clear that for each $1 of revenue, the casino profits $0.25. This is a 25% profit margin. Variance can add some noise, but does not change the long-term expectation, which is what the regulations are based on.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#154

Post by RCitronsBroker »

teepo wrote: post #116
mrandish wrote: post #4

I suspect Caesar's dropped DEF CON because the DEF CON attendees likely have a fairly low "avg revenue per attendee" yield because fewer of them gamble compared to the avg Vegas conference attendee. They also probably spend less on high-end restaurant dining and bar drinking inside the hotel. Since the pandemic Vegas has had a pretty strong resurgence in general and this may be a sign that Caesar's is doing well enou…

Combine low ARPU with perceived risk (in the wake of the Vegas hacks last year) and a termination for convenience clause and this is a no brained for Caesars. There’s just not enough upside for Caesars to host in their marquee properties.

im really sure you have found the answer, it’s most likely more of a perceived thing than any of us wants to admit. DEFCON attendees can be walking stereotypes at times anyways, but the combination of drunk, low yielding hacker(wo)men(tm) roaming your hotel probably just made the juice not worth the squeeze.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#155

Post by wkat4242 »

abnercoimbre wrote: post #144
wkat4242 wrote: post #124

Too bad. Now I will definitely never go there. My work sometimes gets free tickets for black hat but that's a totally boring business conference. Not worth going to on its own. I hate mingling with sales suits, I'm a real techie. Def con was something I would be looking forward to and if my work paid for black hat I could have stayed the extra days to go there.

This is me being opportunistic, but I'm an organizer for indie tech conferences [0]. We're not selling tickets with set venue dates yet (although a fundraiser is happening.) If nothing else, you might join the newsletter to see if it's your cup of tea later in the year. [0] https://handmadecities.com

Thanks! I'm very unlikely to fly to the US for conferences though (in fact I've never been there in my life!). Especially to Seattle as it's so far away from me in Europe. I'm in Spain which is pretty much a low-wage country so things like intercontinental flights and foreign hotels are prohibitively expensive.

Boston might be an option if it just happens to be around a time I might visit for work (but again I've never been there in my life so it's not all that likely even though we have a major office there).

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#156

Post by px43 »

wkat4242 wrote: post #136
elicksaur wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of comment on HN is always fascinating. Is it just simple trolling? Is it cosplay? Is it someone new (or old) to “hacking” sincerely trying to “no true scotsman” attending def con?

I have to say as a European the choice of location has always puzzled me. Corporate interests basically run las vegas, I find it a really odd choice for such a free-thinking anti-establishment community.

DEF CON started as a bunch of teenagers running away from home to get ridiculously drunk and trash some place, and it hasn't changed much. Vegas was the perfect choice. It was a party. Getting to smash up an obscene capitalist hellhole was a key perk, and still is to this day.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#157

Post by monkeywork »

photonthug wrote: post #111
ncallaway wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, yes, it does? There’s a huge difference between: “if you do X, you will be asked to leave” and “if you do X, the police will arrest you” Like, when I invite someone over to a dinner party, it is against my policy to insult my dog. If you do that I will kick you out (not actually, he’s a dumb klutz, you can insult him all you want), but that doesn’t make it illegal to insult my dog.

True but not relevant. Police and legality do not need to be involved with certain kinds of casino justice. Security may just offer to beat your ass if you won't cease and desist, avoiding the paperwork. Could be bluff but they know where cameras are and have cop friends..

You need to check a calendar and see the current year - the days of Casinos' roughing up card counters is long long long gone. Might be great for your screenplay or fan fiction but doesn't match reality.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#158

Post by wkat4242 »

px43 wrote: post #156
wkat4242 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say as a European the choice of location has always puzzled me. Corporate interests basically run las vegas, I find it a really odd choice for such a free-thinking anti-establishment community.

DEF CON started as a bunch of teenagers running away from home to get ridiculously drunk and trash some place, and it hasn't changed much. Vegas was the perfect choice. It was a party. Getting to smash up an obscene capitalist hellhole was a key perk, and still is to this day.

Ahh I see. This way it makes a lot more sense, thanks for the explanation :)

I go to a lot of European hacker parties/camps and I can certainly recognise the mindset you mention (and I identify with that mindset as well even though I work in a corporate job). For this reason Las Vegas made no sense to me but in light of your comment it does now.

And yeah getting ridiculously drunk is definitely part of the experience :D

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#159

Post by px43 »

hartator wrote: post #119

To be honest, requiring an ID and a proof of vaccination to attend was against the anonymity principle of the convention in the first place.

In 2021 I paid in cash, showed my physical ID and vax card, and was on my way with my badge. Nothing about the exchange was recorded. They take privacy incredibly seriously, especially the goons working registration. There was also basically no COVID that year, despite DEF CON happening right during the Delta outbreak. A big nursing conference the week before got hit hard with Delta, but DEF CON took that shit seriously, and it worked well.

Pretty sure there was no vax check in 2022 and 2023, and I do know some people who got COVID in those years, but people who took decent precautions were generally able to dodge it.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#160

Post by RCitronsBroker »

wkat4242 wrote: post #126
andy800 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for some reason To avoid any legal liability. Stating a specific reason would open them to possible "breach of contract" depending on whether the act(s) were significant enough or justifiable, based on the contract terms. Just say nothing, part amicably, everyone moves on without drama. With that said, they probably weren't lying. Most likely, months after ponying up $10 million to a sophisticated international hac…

> Most likely, months after ponying up $10 million to a sophisticated international hacking group, Caesars Entertainment probably doesn't want to invite some of the world's best hackers to stay and meet at its flagship resort. Most Def con visitors would be white hats so that would be a bit disingenious. I would expect most attendees to behave (reporting issues after finding one) Especially considering they just got…

you say that like a person informed enough to know what a white hat is lol. Let’s be real here, even the ethical hacker bunch can look VERY wonky and rowdy to an outsider, especially if you are as far removed as the hospitality industry. The only time they had to deal with hackers in the recent past was decidedly painful for them
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