Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

forum.defcon.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 408 posts

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#131

Post by wkat4242 »

dash488 wrote: post #125

After the impact of the MGM hack this year Cesars probably revisited their insurance on getting compromised. After the auditors and lawyers looked at all the risks they came across DEF CON and said no because of the wording of how DEF CON is marketed. Their choice was probably to drop them or loose coverage. DEF CON is listed as a "hacker convention held annually in Las Vegas, Nevada." where Blackhat is "Black Hat is…

Black hat is just one giant bunch of sales pitches. No I haven't been there but I've had to sift through recordings that my boss (who did attend) wanted me to look at because he was too drunk himself to do a proper evaluation.

It doesn't provide information, it just provides sales suits a chance to blow their hot air :P

If I'd ever go there it would just be an excuse to go to vegas to see DEF CON as well :P I work in security but I have no time for corporatism and sales bullshit.

Edit: I know it's a bit of a hot take but I've been to so many conferences where sales goons spew all the pretty pictures and then later when we actually got our hands on the product it turned out that it couldn't do half the stuff that was promised. Or there were other weaknesses like excruciatingly bad support. I've become very cynical due to this.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#132

Post by wkat4242 »

alberth wrote: post #49
subcosmos wrote: post #26

Hypothesis : Result of last years bomb-scare and evacuation?

Or Caesar's being hacked last year and a belief (right/wrong/indifferent) that they don’t want to be hosting the kind of folks who could do that. https://www.securityweek.com/caesars-confirms-ransomware-hac...

It's really much more likely the people that are in the business of defending against just that.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#133

Post by johnnyanmac »

nimos wrote: post #12
mrandish wrote: post #4

I suspect Caesar's dropped DEF CON because the DEF CON attendees likely have a fairly low "avg revenue per attendee" yield because fewer of them gamble compared to the avg Vegas conference attendee. They also probably spend less on high-end restaurant dining and bar drinking inside the hotel. Since the pandemic Vegas has had a pretty strong resurgence in general and this may be a sign that Caesar's is doing well enou…

I doubt they would cancel a contract already in place for that reason. Not renew the contract - sure. But canceling an already scheduled event because of low revenue per guest doesn't seem very likely to me? Or maybe it was some sort of ongoing agreement and canceling it was effectively "not renewing".

>But canceling an already scheduled event because of low revenue per guest doesn't seem very likely to me?

Not to be TOO snarky, but given how quickly corporate cancels employee labor despite rising revenue, it would not surprise me for other corporate to also cancel "low paying customers" for "high paying customers". Loyalty is beyond dead so cancelling a contract is just a cost of business if they feel the alternative gives more money.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#134

Post by prmoustache »

nodesocket wrote: post #120
lrvick wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are actually very few people with pentesting skills at Defcon stronger than running burp suite, and fewer still of those that are blackhats. Those with skill can do very well for themselves legally, and know better than to risk their careers getting caught messing with casino systems. In practice the biggest abuse from Defcon to the venues is in the form of a subset of people constantly defacing casino property…

Not sure I agree with the idea there are very few world class hackers there. I've watched a few of the capture the flags and almost immediately they went over my head and I felt inadequate. lol.

I'd argue that the CTF competitors are a minority in attendance (but that doesn't mean they are none at DEFCON).

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#135

Post by lend000 »

mrandish wrote: post #4

I suspect Caesar's dropped DEF CON because the DEF CON attendees likely have a fairly low "avg revenue per attendee" yield because fewer of them gamble compared to the avg Vegas conference attendee. They also probably spend less on high-end restaurant dining and bar drinking inside the hotel. Since the pandemic Vegas has had a pretty strong resurgence in general and this may be a sign that Caesar's is doing well enou…

I've heard stories about "hackers" at former DEF CON's pouring concrete down sinks and doing all sorts of other socially clueless vandalism, and resulting backlash for the organizers. While the infosec community is much bigger and more... "normal" than it was back then, I imagine the guests are still more of a liability than the average conference attendee and as you said, probably not big spenders.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#136

Post by wkat4242 »

elicksaur wrote: post #104
brcmthrowaway wrote: post #46

I'm surprised any hacker of any standing would want to give the corrupt state of Nevada any tax money whatsoever.

This kind of comment on HN is always fascinating. Is it just simple trolling? Is it cosplay? Is it someone new (or old) to “hacking” sincerely trying to “no true scotsman” attending def con?

I have to say as a European the choice of location has always puzzled me. Corporate interests basically run las vegas, I find it a really odd choice for such a free-thinking anti-establishment community.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#137

Post by toast0 »

killjoywashere wrote: post #105

You know, why the fuck is DEFCON in August, in Vegas? Like, you know a nice place to visit in August? Kodiak, Alaska. Portsmouth, Maine. Sydney. List of places I would never want to visit in August? Vegas. Houston. Vegas. New Orleans. Vegas. Mumbai? Maybe. Baghdad? Definitely not. Also, Vegas. My friends in Christ, why, does anyone, think Vegas is a good idea in August?

I don't care to go to Las Vegas, and I don't care to go to DEFCON, but you can easily fly from anywhere to Las Vegas, any time of year. (Subject to US visa issues, of course)

Others have said August is off-peak for Vegas (perhaps because of the weather), which means its a good time for a conference as space should be less expensive.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#138

Post by prmoustache »

killjoywashere wrote: post #105

You know, why the fuck is DEFCON in August, in Vegas? Like, you know a nice place to visit in August? Kodiak, Alaska. Portsmouth, Maine. Sydney. List of places I would never want to visit in August? Vegas. Houston. Vegas. New Orleans. Vegas. Mumbai? Maybe. Baghdad? Definitely not. Also, Vegas. My friends in Christ, why, does anyone, think Vegas is a good idea in August?

Why Vegas in the first place really. This city should not even exist.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#139

Post by zmgsabst »

somenameforme wrote: post #109
pxeboot wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can view their financial statements [1]. I am sure the 'casino' category includes things besides gambling, but it looks like the largest share of their revenue. [1] https://investor.caesars.com/news-releases/news-release-deta...

Be sure to subtract expenses. So for 2022 you have 2500 for casino, 500 for food, 1500 for hotel, 800 for "other." And there's definitely some counterintuitive accounting going on there, because that 2500 would imply a profit margin of 41% on casino, but Vegas regulations require gaming machines to pay out at least 75%, leaving a profit margin max of 25%. The card games and other games of skill wouldn't have such res…

You seem to misunderstand the 75% rate:

The requirement is that the expected value for a play on a machine is >75%. And most are >90%. But that’s not a cap on profit margin, as 25% of the expense for a play may be more than the cost of that play.

Eg, having a machine that costs $1 with $0.75 expected return (and $0.25 revenue for the casino) may only cost the casino $0.10 a play — which would be a 60% profit margin.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#140

Post by tptacek »

busterarm wrote: post #101
mrandish wrote: post #4

I suspect Caesar's dropped DEF CON because the DEF CON attendees likely have a fairly low "avg revenue per attendee" yield because fewer of them gamble compared to the avg Vegas conference attendee. They also probably spend less on high-end restaurant dining and bar drinking inside the hotel. Since the pandemic Vegas has had a pretty strong resurgence in general and this may be a sign that Caesar's is doing well enou…

All of the more recent years that I did DEF CON I was with large groups of people going to high end restaurants and (ab)using the hotel bars. In fact the hotel bars were always packed. My suspicion is that Caesars is trying to do something like play with headcount. Late summer is not just a weak time for conferences but DEF CON needs a ton more space and a ton more human babysitting across that space than any other c…

Black Hat is a giant commercial conference run by a company that runs dozens and dozens of giant commercial conferences. No event venue is ever going to fuck with them.
Post reply on HN