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DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

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Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#111

Post by photonthug »

ncallaway wrote: post #71
serf wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'legal' has no meaning here when it's against every single casino policy in the world.

Uh, yes, it does? There’s a huge difference between: “if you do X, you will be asked to leave” and “if you do X, the police will arrest you” Like, when I invite someone over to a dinner party, it is against my policy to insult my dog. If you do that I will kick you out (not actually, he’s a dumb klutz, you can insult him all you want), but that doesn’t make it illegal to insult my dog.

True but not relevant. Police and legality do not need to be involved with certain kinds of casino justice. Security may just offer to beat your ass if you won't cease and desist, avoiding the paperwork. Could be bluff but they know where cameras are and have cop friends..

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#112

Post by lrvick »

nodesocket wrote: post #25
mrandish wrote: post #4

I suspect Caesar's dropped DEF CON because the DEF CON attendees likely have a fairly low "avg revenue per attendee" yield because fewer of them gamble compared to the avg Vegas conference attendee. They also probably spend less on high-end restaurant dining and bar drinking inside the hotel. Since the pandemic Vegas has had a pretty strong resurgence in general and this may be a sign that Caesar's is doing well enou…

Doubtful, I'm sure it's related to the constant attacks against their infrastructure they must defend against (let's be honest, I'm sure Caesars is not defending successfully). The juice just ain't worth the squeeze. They have a business to run, and the risk of having a bunch of drunken and high hackers who happen to be the best in the world running amuck is not their idea of a good corporate event.

There are actually very few people with pentesting skills at Defcon stronger than running burp suite, and fewer still of those that are blackhats. Those with skill can do very well for themselves legally, and know better than to risk their careers getting caught messing with casino systems.

In practice the biggest abuse from Defcon to the venues is in the form of a subset of people constantly defacing casino property which no one reports because no one has sympathy for casinos.

My favorite trolling of casinos at Defcon is the people dumping prop money everywhere. Casinos do not -like- that and spend a lot of resources running around picking them up which is funny to watch.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#113

Post by ramraj07 »

killjoywashere wrote: post #105

You know, why the fuck is DEFCON in August, in Vegas? Like, you know a nice place to visit in August? Kodiak, Alaska. Portsmouth, Maine. Sydney. List of places I would never want to visit in August? Vegas. Houston. Vegas. New Orleans. Vegas. Mumbai? Maybe. Baghdad? Definitely not. Also, Vegas. My friends in Christ, why, does anyone, think Vegas is a good idea in August?

I can stay in an acceptable room for two digit dollars a night in Vegas. That’s not true even in Mumbai.

Cheap flights too.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#114

Post by karmasimida »

cratermoon wrote: post #69
mrandish wrote: post #4

I suspect Caesar's dropped DEF CON because the DEF CON attendees likely have a fairly low "avg revenue per attendee" yield because fewer of them gamble compared to the avg Vegas conference attendee. They also probably spend less on high-end restaurant dining and bar drinking inside the hotel. Since the pandemic Vegas has had a pretty strong resurgence in general and this may be a sign that Caesar's is doing well enou…

I heard a joke a tech conference people in Vegas many years ago. It goes something like "people who go to tech conferences in Vegas bring one shirt and a $20 bill and never change either." So yea, programmers generally aren't gamblers because they know enough math to know the house always wins.

House sets the mean and variance, how could they ever lose? Only thing left to make it work is volume, transactions volume, so variance can be minimized.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#115

Post by renewiltord »

basil-rash wrote: post #82
cratermoon wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard a joke a tech conference people in Vegas many years ago. It goes something like "people who go to tech conferences in Vegas bring one shirt and a $20 bill and never change either." So yea, programmers generally aren't gamblers because they know enough math to know the house always wins.

Eh, I’m a programmer and I go to vegas with other programmers fairly regularly. We know enough math to know the expected cost per entertainment•hour is comparable to many other pass-times. But even so we’re actually all net-positive on the city, thanks to a couple “lucky” craps runs.

Came to make the same comment. Vegas is a fun place. We spend some money and get some fun just like anything else.

And same. A couple of roulette results has us “positive”.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#116

Post by teepo »

mrandish wrote: post #4

I suspect Caesar's dropped DEF CON because the DEF CON attendees likely have a fairly low "avg revenue per attendee" yield because fewer of them gamble compared to the avg Vegas conference attendee. They also probably spend less on high-end restaurant dining and bar drinking inside the hotel. Since the pandemic Vegas has had a pretty strong resurgence in general and this may be a sign that Caesar's is doing well enou…

Combine low ARPU with perceived risk (in the wake of the Vegas hacks last year) and a termination for convenience clause and this is a no brained for Caesars. There’s just not enough upside for Caesars to host in their marquee properties.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#117

Post by mmaunder »

Bomb threat last year caused evacuation: https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/14/def_con_bomb_scare/

In 2018 we had aggressive room searches post the Vegas shooting that caused a lot of friction: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/security-theater...

Point being that it’s been a rough ride over the last few years. Combine that with corporate events probably being far more lucrative for Caesars I.e suits drink and gamble harder than geeks - I’m not surprised by this.

TBH my team and I skipped DEF CON last year and threw our own event in Banff instead because DEF CON has become quite boring with long lines and a Groundhog Day feel to it. If you’re looking for a proper con check out a local B-sides or a smaller legit con like Shmoocon.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#118

Post by junon »

bboygravity wrote: post #106
b33j0r wrote: post #66

Haha, would you want ESP32 hackers at your venue? Breaking into wifi and rooms to make tech points? Hosting this never made sense.

I smell potential for the hotel to get (free) help to become the most cybersecure hotel in the world.

That's not what's happening.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#120

Post by nodesocket »

lrvick wrote: post #112
nodesocket wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubtful, I'm sure it's related to the constant attacks against their infrastructure they must defend against (let's be honest, I'm sure Caesars is not defending successfully). The juice just ain't worth the squeeze. They have a business to run, and the risk of having a bunch of drunken and high hackers who happen to be the best in the world running amuck is not their idea of a good corporate event.

There are actually very few people with pentesting skills at Defcon stronger than running burp suite, and fewer still of those that are blackhats. Those with skill can do very well for themselves legally, and know better than to risk their careers getting caught messing with casino systems. In practice the biggest abuse from Defcon to the venues is in the form of a subset of people constantly defacing casino property…

Not sure I agree with the idea there are very few world class hackers there. I've watched a few of the capture the flags and almost immediately they went over my head and I felt inadequate. lol.
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