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New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

nytimes.com

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Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#941

Post by theshrike79 »

skipkey wrote: post #603
rlg2161 wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> something that will not happen in our lifetimes Not sure where you’re coming up with this - the average modern gas stove is expected to last 13-15 years [1]. Obviously there are exceptions but we can expect 95%+ of this infra to be replaced in 20 years just due to equipment failure. Seems reasonable to expect that effectively all gas stoves in the US will be replaced at least once in the next 50 years. > great poli…

It’s a balancing test. Cooking on electric stoves is a far worse experience than cooking on gas. Induction stovetops are somewhat better than the classical electric tops that generate heat through resistance, but only somewhat. I am stuck using an electric stovetop, and will replace it with an induction one soon, but I would switch to gas in a heartbeat if it were available.

Yes, the "let's heat a plate of metal" -type ancient electric stoves suck.

Ceramic ones suck a bit less, induction is pretty damn good.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#942

Post by theshrike79 »

nemo44x wrote: post #512
kibwen wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternatives to gas are so good these days that there's no way I'd pay to connect any new house to gas.

Gas alliances are significantly cheaper to run. Also perform better. Gas dryers are awesome compared to electric for example. Plus electric goes out often. Gas doesn’t.

> Gas dryers are awesome compared to electric for example

Have you tried a heat-pump dryer?

Using gas to drive a clothes dryer is the most American thing in a good while =)

> Plus electric goes out often.

Where do you live when you have a 100% reliable gas hookup but electricity is down "often"?

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#943

Post by theshrike79 »

lumb63 wrote: post #193
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #166

I don't often like to take a "both sides" approach when assessing specific issues, but this one just seems to highlight the stupidity, or at the very least shortsightedness, of both sides. On one hand, for those pushing for a ban, this seems largely performative, a la banning plastic straws. Gas is used for 2 main reasons: for cooking, where it represents a miniscule amount of overall energy use, and for heating, whe…

+1 regarding cooking gas being a minuscule amount of gas usage overall. And not to mention, gas is still the first choice for most serious cooks, so the small benefit comes at relatively large cost to lifestyle. Regarding heat pumps phasing out gas heat, in NY it isn’t feasible. It gets too cold. In more temperate climates, sure, but in the northern US and further, there will be a need for on-demand heat for a long t…

> in NY it isn’t feasible. It gets too cold

Scandinavia here. Heat pumps work just fine down to -20C

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#944

Post by theshrike79 »

collegeburner wrote: post #431
xwdv wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence induction stoves.

i just looked on home depot dot com gas ranges: $949, $848, $676. boujee model is $1199 induction ranges: $1198 starting, $4138, $1848, $1598, $2498 plus i can't use my nice copper diffuser with them :( nah, imma stick to gas :)

Bought a induction range/oven just a few years ago. Was 450€.

Dunno what kind of pricing y'all have on that side of the Atlantic.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#945

Post by jjav »

dan-robertson wrote: post #684
JakeAl wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love my gas stove, won't live without one, and it keeps my home warm in the winter even when the power goes out. Gas is much more cost effective than electric as well. Also lobe my gas water heater for the same reason. Hot baths during blackouts. This whole "gas is bad for the environment" is bunk when fossil fuels are required to generate al that electricity and that doesn't even get to the cost and efficiency of st…

Do your gas appliances actually work when the power is out? I guess you could light the stove with a match but aren’t most boilers going to be electrically controlled such that they won’t work without power. It also seems like a bit of a weird reason to me as a big reason. But maybe you get a lot more power outages than I do. (I would imagine somewhere with a gas main, where gas heating can be economical, would not h…

> Do your gas appliances actually work when the power is out?

Yes. The gas stove does not need any electricity, same for the gas water heater. It's nice to be able to cook and have hot water showers during blackouts.

The gas furnace does require electricity to run the fan, but it's not much. So running the furnace to heat the house during a blackout is easy to do with a small generator to power the fan while all the heating BTUs come from gas.

Here in PG&E land (might be the most expensive electricity in the country, but at least it's the most unreliable!) these are nice advantages.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#946

Post by theshrike79 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #176
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #166

I don't often like to take a "both sides" approach when assessing specific issues, but this one just seems to highlight the stupidity, or at the very least shortsightedness, of both sides. On one hand, for those pushing for a ban, this seems largely performative, a la banning plastic straws. Gas is used for 2 main reasons: for cooking, where it represents a miniscule amount of overall energy use, and for heating, whe…

There is also a third problem with this.... what happens when shit hits the fan? If you use gas and your neighbours use electricity, and there's suddenly a power outage, you can help your neighbors and heat/cook their food too,... or in case of a gas system outage, they can help with yours. If you heat with gas, you don't freeze even with a power outage, and can still buy a cheap electric heater with a gas outage...…

Then I can use the V2L capability in my EV and run a microwave on it for example, while also running the ground source heat pump.

I also have a gas grill and a camping stove for emergencies (and for camping).

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#947

Post by jjav »

ben_w wrote: post #707
JakeAl wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love my gas stove, won't live without one, and it keeps my home warm in the winter even when the power goes out. Gas is much more cost effective than electric as well. Also lobe my gas water heater for the same reason. Hot baths during blackouts. This whole "gas is bad for the environment" is bunk when fossil fuels are required to generate al that electricity and that doesn't even get to the cost and efficiency of st…

Last time I had any kind of electrical power failure was, IIRC, the end of 2006 while living in the middle of nowhere: https://maps.app.goo.gl/uhgrnw1W4KFBoiRRA So while I fully believe your lived experiences and preferences, a relevant question is: why are your electricity supplies so unreliable that having gas as well is even an important concern?

> So while I fully believe your lived experiences and preferences, a relevant question is: why are your electricity supplies so unreliable that having gas as well is even an important concern?

Might be different in the UK.

I have never lived anywhere where blackouts weren't fairly regular. Currently in the backwaters of silicon valley and blackouts are the norm every time it rains, or there's any wind. Or forecast of wind or fear of rain. Thanks PG&E.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#948

Post by jjav »

ihateyouall123 wrote: post #812
ben_w wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I had any kind of electrical power failure was, IIRC, the end of 2006 while living in the middle of nowhere: https://maps.app.goo.gl/uhgrnw1W4KFBoiRRA So while I fully believe your lived experiences and preferences, a relevant question is: why are your electricity supplies so unreliable that having gas as well is even an important concern?

Because the majority of people rent and have no control over this in their place Mr. spoiled rich guy

> Because the majority of people rent and have no control over this in their place Mr. spoiled rich guy

Sorry but this is nonsense. Your local power utility monopoly is what it is, completely unrelated to whether you rent or own.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#949

Post by theshrike79 »

dadjoker wrote: post #190
philip1209 wrote: post #174

Electricity is a universal protocol - you can generate it with multiple different energy sources, ranging from gas to nuclear. I think this change future-proofs constructions, and makes our infrastructure less fragile.

As California has shown multiple times, dependence on electricity alone can be disastrous.

The US power grid is _literally_ ancient.

That one huge fire a few years ago was caused when a thick piece of iron WORE THROUGH from 100 years of wear and tear.

But the laws have specific exceptions for oil and gas pipelines (one permit and the land owners have to dealwithit), for new electric lines everyone who can even theoretically see them can (and will) complain.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#950

Post by dang »

dmix wrote: post #602
topaz0 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you try to do exactly what you were doing on the gas stove in the same way, you will have a bad time, but my and many other people's experience is that a decent electric stove is perfectly capable of making good food once you figure out how to use it. Electric stoves in general can heat faster than gas, and in my experience heat more evenly (no hot spots), so you don't need the crutch of a copper bottom to conduct…

[flagged]

Please don't cross into personal attack.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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