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Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

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Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#761

Post by quotz »

avmich wrote: post #641
quotz wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in big cities like that and I can tell you its still pretty much the same thing. Even though I hate this word but I had been what some consider a pick up artist before I got married, although a quite successful one. My n-count is in the higher double digits and I've dated a a "Miss" beauty pageant winner from an eastern european country that competed in the Miss Universe. There's endless science that suppo…

> So dating apps are a waste of time, much better to go out and talk to girls in real life and get yourself out of the synthetic environment apps like Tinder create. Given your self-description, you're probably not understanding the problem from the men side. The problem is - how, specifically, to go out and talk to girls in real life. As Elon Musk says, let this sink in. We're talking here about modern times, where…

I feel like dating apps created this problem, the same way social media made everyone lonely and depressed by "connecting everyone". There's thousands of ways to talk to girls, and millions of resources and guides and books on how to do it, yet people do it less and less thinking dating apps will produce results.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#762

Post by Dracophoenix »

giantg2 wrote: post #626
prirun wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are prenups, which I believe would be wise for any couple to create (together), and especially important in this type of arrangement. Judges can override prenups. I just did a little Google research, and just under 50% of prenups are invalidated during divorce.

They can't override prenups. They can invalidate prenups, or portions of the prenup for specific reasons. I couldn't find the stats that you mentioned. I would guess that number included specific provisions that were invalidates, such as custody arrangements, which are outside the scope of a prenup.

Look up "Second Look Doctrine"

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#763

Post by apeace »

Manuel_D wrote: post #505
apeace wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To spare the HN community from this whole discussion, feel free to find my contact info in my profile. We can have a respectful debate over email if you want. I will just end by saying, you are the one making claims which require evidence to back them up. Especially on a site like HN, it is a good idea to provide evidence for broad, sweeping claims. Or else dial those claims back.

I shared a source making this claim. You don't think it's a good source, which is a totally valid position, but you've not shared any evidence for this assertion. It'd be good to follow your own advice and back up your own claims with evidence, or dial back your claims about the blog. I'm really baffled why someone who called a piece of writing "horrible guided and confused" with nothing to back that claim up is in a…

As I said, I'd be happy to continue a respectful debate over email. Please engage me in that way, so that we can help each other and understand each other. This web site is not the right venue to continue this debate ad nauseam. I would like to respond to many of the things that you have said, but it doesn't make sense for us to do it on HN. If you really feel strongly about keeping the discourse public, you can always make a new HN submission showing our emails.

Again, my contact is in my profile. Whether or not we continue to talk, I wish you all the best.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#764

Post by Traubenfuchs »

seydor wrote: post #717
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #70

I am a handsome gay man and I can open up Grindr to pick todays solution to my sexual loneliness at any time. Sometimes I do, because my hormones and lust dictate my actions. Just invite someone over during home office and fornicate while I carefully listen to Slack sounds in the background. Generally all it lead to so far was the whole ABC of STDs and even more loneliness. Sex is incredibly overrated and I probably…

this is not solving anything though. people who end up with long-term lonenlines feel (rightly) practically excluded from society and STDs are not high in their concerns

But sex does not make you feel less lonely.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#765

Post by thefz »

thw09j9m wrote: post #124

I'll chime in as somebody who's been considered top 10% of attractiveness in one country and bottom 50% in another - the difference in the amount of sexual opportunities on apps is absolutely staggering. Not that this should be a surprise to anyone. Where I am considered attractive, I've gotten 80+ matches in one day and random women messaging me at 11PM telling me they're lonely and to come hang out. I've had more f…

Dating apps are not a solution to this problem. Period. Stop thinking that the light plastic square you carry in the pocket all the time can be the cure for everything. It is exactly the opposite.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#766

Post by bmn__ »

astrange wrote: post #744
bmn__ wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's false. Out of the seven characteristics of attractiveness, only one is under locus of control, the rest are genetically determined and exceedingly hard to change.

Nothing is genetically determined. The environment happens to you after your genes do. (For instance, it's easy to "change" if you're a burn victim. If you're going to be scientific, be specific.)

> The environment happens to you after your genes do.

So what? This correction changes nothing, the discussion is about control.

A man who wants to improve his attractiveness in terms of body height, skin colour or sensitivity of the scalp against 5α-DHT expressing follicle miniaturisation can't achieve shit by changing his environment.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#767

Post by ianai »

lechacker wrote: post #605
mikhael28 wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plane ticket. Amsterdam. Look for red lights.

Transactional sex doesn't satisfy sexual loneliness. Prostitution won't solve the problem the paper is mentioning.

The replies your comment got are very very illustrative of HN. Not much actual advice but plenty of gut responses masquerading as advice.

At one point in my life most/all of my socialization stemmed from going to garage and estate sales. This was during a time where I would have been homeless without my parents.

Otherwise, I’ve also gone the Forest Gump route in the past. Walking for an hour or longer has an amazing affect on inhibitions that’s much healthier than alcohol or medication.

I do reject that learning social skills is suddenly locked out at some age. But I definitely agree that it gets more difficult. Oddly, supposedly there’s a long low point until the 60s. People in their 60s have an uptick in happiness and life satisfaction that seems more about actually being 60 than about the life lived to that point.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#768

Post by fennecfoxy »

thw09j9m wrote: post #124

I'll chime in as somebody who's been considered top 10% of attractiveness in one country and bottom 50% in another - the difference in the amount of sexual opportunities on apps is absolutely staggering. Not that this should be a surprise to anyone. Where I am considered attractive, I've gotten 80+ matches in one day and random women messaging me at 11PM telling me they're lonely and to come hang out. I've had more f…

Yeah dating apps are built to extract money out of men so that they can see women. It falls back to standard heteronormative sexual archetypes.

I keep hearing that hetero peeps often split the bill, woman can propose, etc, these days but that seems more like conjecture to me.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#769

Post by fennecfoxy »

As a gay man (who, fortunately, doesn't have any issue with finding partners for casual "stress relief"), I agree that this is a definite issue.

It seems the world has moved on in many ways and traditional roles/barriers are being broken down, but unfortunately not so much for this topic. I look at hetero friends of mine and it still seems to be the same old rat-race for them.

Men get treated as disposable resources when it comes to dating/relationships. Sure, not all men; if you're pretty or wealthy or otherwise "useful" you'll do fine. But it seems very one-sided in that women do not need to do all that much in order to be desirable to someone (though perhaps not desirable to the type of people they want to meet specifically).

It really just makes me so glad to be gay, and so sad to see men treated like they have no worth; you do have worth, every man, every woman, and every person in between.

It's also incredibly unfortunate that many of the traits exhibited by "men who work in technology" are generally not seen as desirable by many women. I count myself as incredibly fortunate that I can easily meet other men who are into the same things; the only downside is obviously that: * there are fewer gay men available compared to the hetero pool * some (a large number really) of hetero guys will get aggressive to the point of violence if you flirt with them, so it's still very important to sound it out/gaydar someone.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#770

Post by bmn__ »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #738
bmn__ wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, dude, the problem is young men are increasingly not worth having sex with. That's some victim blaming if I've ever seen one. No, dude, the problem is not that men have changed, but societal circumstances have, and women just act according to the new environment they have been afforded. Increasing one's market value (desirability) works, but that's doctoring the symptoms instead of healing the root cause. It cea…

Your argument proves my point. If it's true that women are "acting in accord with a new environment", and in the new environment, there is less need to have sex with them, or new standards dictate higher requirements for sex, then by definition their worth has been devalued... therefore, less worth having sex with. It's also possible that men have changed, and are increasingly becoming hikikomori due to increased ado…

There seems to be an underlying assumption that because men are expendable, we ought to structure the way we live according to this principle (naturalist fallacy). Tell me whether I understand this correctly or whether I read too much into it.

> [men] are simply less valuable today, and they need to adapt […] The alternative would be to revert the culture.

False dichotomy alert.

In reality, there are many more things we can do. The feminist forebears a hundred years ago fought for rights and equality; they would fall faint with shame if they could see how women in our times betray the ideals and can act so childish, selfish, entitled, cruel and dishonourable. We could start by putting responsibility on the shoulders of women. Here are some ideas how that could look concretely:

1. Teach women that treating 80% of men as not worthy of interacting with is unreasonable and has grave, society-wide first-order and second-order effects. Just as men need to control their instincts (immense sex drive) for a well functioning social environment, women need to control theirs (hypergamy).

2. End the sexist practice of giving women preferential treatment based on the women-are-wonderful effect, particularly where it matters most, namely in court. Men can help with that and learn to keep their paternal protection instinct in check which expresses in the practice of white-knighting.

3. Threat of violence is an effective means to curb excesses of bad behaviour, this should be familiar to people who grew up in e.g. Islam. I understand the thought comes across as revolting to HN readers who are mostly liberal-minded westerners unless one is generations older, holds an orthodox-conservative world-view for some other reason or has been reading a lot of Heinlein. Just as men must align their life with this concept in mind, women should too (once again).

I'm doing my part to diminish the suffering; often I think this generation is lost, but I can still exert influence over the next one to some degree. Children can't become $APPROPRIATE_COLOUR-pilled early enough.

> women would just shut up and go back to the kitchen and do what they're told, I don't think women really like that idea.

It's very clear that women hate being pressured to spend a life long relationship with a man they do not really love or want; it's similar to slavery. I do not wish that upon any of my fellow human beings. If there really are JP fans who think that way, then I condemn that; that's not a good interpretation of what JP said. I want them to reconsider and think hard to come up with better solutions.

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