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Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

indiatoday.in

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Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#151

Post by JumpCrisscross »

FlyingSnake wrote: post #141
ummonk wrote: post #13

I have mixed feelings on this. There are of course things that aren't explicitly prohibited by workplace policies but are no doubt unacceptable - e.g. discriminating against left-handed employees. But it's still useful to have explicit policies against caste discrimination to make clear that it's unacceptable. On the other hand, as an Indian in a top tech company we're more likely to experience racism than casteism (…

HN can never has a coherent discussion about casteism in modern India OR in NRI populations because they lack the nuance and lived experience required to understand how jati system works. Indians are more likely to be affected by racism than casteism in the west.

> Indians are more likely to be affected by racism than casteism in the west

Should we ignore sexism faced by black women because they’re more likely to be racially discriminated against?

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#152

Post by ryan93 »

shapefrog wrote: post #99
short_sells_poo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm strongly generalizing here, but the overall population statistics might mean that minorities hiring minorities is more of an outlier than white people hiring white people. In a predominantly white society, it is perfectly conceivable that you'll hire predominantly white people even if you are completely unbiased, purely because they are strongly over-represented in the population. White people hiring white people…

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045221 Anything not aligned with the breakdown here is just straight up racist hiring practices - 60% white, 20% hispanic / latino, 15% black, 5% asia (subcontinent & se asia).

That is not a breakdown of who has like a PHD in electrical engineering. Maybe you are just being disingenuous to create engagement.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#153

Post by jackling »

shapefrog wrote: post #117
misnome wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anything not aligned with the breakdown here is just straight up racist hiring practices So, every field and job market has exactly the same distribution as the entire country?

Wouldnt it be nice. Or are you suggesting that some races / genders / etc are better at some things than others?

Couldn't it just be that some races / genders / etc, are just more represented in some markets than others. Has nothing to do with if any of them are better.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#154

Post by shapefrog »

ryan93 wrote: post #152
shapefrog wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045221 Anything not aligned with the breakdown here is just straight up racist hiring practices - 60% white, 20% hispanic / latino, 15% black, 5% asia (subcontinent & se asia).

That is not a breakdown of who has like a PHD in electrical engineering. Maybe you are just being disingenuous to create engagement.

In 2019, nearly 70% of doctorate recipients who were U.S. citizens or permanent residents were white. 10% were Asian, 8% were Latino, 7% were Black and 3% identified as more than one race.

Not all of them were in electrical engineering I guess.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#155

Post by paiute »

FlyingSnake wrote: post #112
FactolSarin wrote: post #41

Out of curiosity, for Indians working in America, how hard is it to hide your caste or pretend to be of another caste altogether? Is this something that comes up in conversation among Indians? Do names tend to correlate to you caste? And if so, do people change them as a way of hiding their family caste?

There are various caste markers that casteist people use to identify the caste of the other person. Some of them include food preferences, accents (yes Indian languages also have different accents). I have seen that people can be casteist on both ends of a spectrum and it’s really hard to tell what marker of yours will be noted by the other party. I’ve seen that most people these days don’t try to pretend about hidin…

White americans do this too. Think ozarks. I know plenty of ridiculously smart people from this region, who if they talked about the food they ate or didn't work hard to extinguish their accents would probably not have jobs w/ coastal tech companies.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#156

Post by tomrod »

FlyingSnake wrote: post #129
tomrod wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't sound right. Weren't castes based on race and conquering populations initially? How would you describe casteism's status among expatriated Indian populations at a population level? Or is the fact one refers to a population at all to be help in contempt as "racism"?

> castes based on race and conquering populations initially. No. Varnashram and Jati system were not formed due to any imaginary invasion from the outside, that’s the discarded Raj era AIT speaking.

Oh, the Indus valley was always Indian and never had external population migrations or conquests that left an impact on culture and dynasties analogous to England's Norman conquest of 1066 and earlier Saxon migrations that impacted the culture to the present day, reflected in socioeconomic class distinctions?

Man, guess history is completely wrong.[0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_India

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#158

Post by Fogest »

abbusfoflouotne wrote: post #122
shapefrog wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045221 Anything not aligned with the breakdown here is just straight up racist hiring practices - 60% white, 20% hispanic / latino, 15% black, 5% asia (subcontinent & se asia).

I agree with the general sentiment of this comment, but would add that the employee breakdown should match the applicant pool's demographics, not the demographic breakdown at large. For example, to expect a gender breakdown close to 50-50 would be unrealistic in software engineering roles since generally women are less represented in those roles. Though id love to see this shift (Women in stem!!)

Some companies do go out of their ways however to try and match that 50:50, or to get "equal" representation in races. Which really just turns into being discriminatory hiring, but they'll call it "diverse hiring".

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#159

Post by boplicity »

whynaut wrote: post #134
boplicity wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone hires a person based on their color, that's wrong regardless of who's doing it. Let's say a company is set to hire 1,000 employees. For the first 900 hires, they intentionally exclude white people. Should they, then, make up for this intentional exclusion by then prioritizing white people in their hiring? Or should they correct the problem by giving those who were intentionally excluded priority? In othe…

There is no reasonable answer for this strange hypothetical, probably because it is not presented in good faith.

Why is it a strange hypothetical? Extremely similar situations were actually quite common historically. Many, many ethnic groups have been intentionally excluded from many types of jobs over the years. It's not just a hypothetical: It's a past reality that has real-world impacts that last through today.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/occupational-segreg...

https://prospect.org/features/black-workers-remember/

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#160

Post by zmgsabst »

HidyBush wrote: post #66
briandear wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Conservative" doesn't mean "racist." There are racists of all political and social backgrounds. Some of the most racist people I've met have been very "liberal."

Where have I implied that "conservative" means "racist"? If they meant the same to me I could have just written "conservative" instead of specifying "racist"

If they were just discussing racists, why restrict it to just the conservative ones?

Currently, Yale and Harvard are before the US Supreme Court for anti-Asian racism — and they’re liberal aligned institutions. Similarly, the Biden regime and its anti-White racism in farmer subsidies.

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