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Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

indiatoday.in

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Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#141

Post by FlyingSnake »

ummonk wrote: post #13

I have mixed feelings on this. There are of course things that aren't explicitly prohibited by workplace policies but are no doubt unacceptable - e.g. discriminating against left-handed employees. But it's still useful to have explicit policies against caste discrimination to make clear that it's unacceptable. On the other hand, as an Indian in a top tech company we're more likely to experience racism than casteism (…

HN can never has a coherent discussion about casteism in modern India OR in NRI populations because they lack the nuance and lived experience required to understand how jati system works. Indians are more likely to be affected by racism than casteism in the west.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#142

Post by automatic6131 »

giantg2 wrote: post #61
FactolSarin wrote: post #41

Out of curiosity, for Indians working in America, how hard is it to hide your caste or pretend to be of another caste altogether? Is this something that comes up in conversation among Indians? Do names tend to correlate to you caste? And if so, do people change them as a way of hiding their family caste?

Not Indian, but a friend told me that most (if not all) of the names do correlate to caste. No idea if people change them, other than for the normal marriage changes.

>No idea if people change them, other than for the normal marriage changes.

Inter-caste marriages are also extremely rare.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#143

Post by [deleted] »

FactolSarin wrote: post #41

Out of curiosity, for Indians working in America, how hard is it to hide your caste or pretend to be of another caste altogether? Is this something that comes up in conversation among Indians? Do names tend to correlate to you caste? And if so, do people change them as a way of hiding their family caste?

[deleted]

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#144

Post by mlyle »

ummonk wrote: post #37
havblue wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Edit: as if to prove my point about racism, in this very thread there is already a comment talking about Indian nepotism. I was wondering if you could clarify this. Why is the caste system fair game to criticize but nepotism isn't?

I didn't say either was fair game to criticize. Criticism of both tends to provide cover to or be motivated by racism. Especially when there isn't equal emphasis on WASP or Jewish nepotism, when most early tech companies tended to have mostly WASP or Jewish leadership.

I think even in diverse workplaces, there are a whole lot of islands of one ethnicity or another-- including very, very white groups. More than you would get by chance.

This means a whole lot of racist personnel decisions are being made in all directions, and in a diverse workplace they kind of net-out OK?

In any case, ignoring one awful problem because there are others that may be of higher magnitude (or may not...) doesn't seem like a good plan.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#145

Post by mcv »

gonehome wrote: post #95
mcv wrote: post #3

My dad once told me of how at his work (in the 1980s or early 1990s, I think), they had a team of two Indians assigned to a project. One turned out to be of a much "higher" caste than the other, and refused to work with the other, making him utterly useless to the project. It's good that Apple, IBM and other tech companies are taking steps to prevent this sort of discrimination. It's a shame that Google seems be goin…

I remember reading that it’s a big problem at Cisco. In your dad’s example what ended up happening? From your description the guy who refused to work in the higher caste should be fired imo.

I forgot what happened, but knowing my dad, he probably did it himself.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#146

Post by zmgsabst »

rayiner wrote: post #89
boppo1 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't lose much either. I'd argue they'd gain face in today's climate. "DEI best practices aren't just for white people anymore" is probably a good look.

Ironically it tends to be high caste Indians who push this stuff (perhaps because of higher education levels). Maybe they’ll be circumspect about dishing it out to white people after some sessions having to confess their “Brahmin privilege.”

Discussing your “privilege” while inflicting the costs to atone for it on others is the humble-brag version of racism:

Wealthy whites are all too happy to brag about their privileges, while discriminating against poor whites to “atone” for that.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#147

Post by snet0 »

shapefrog wrote: post #117
misnome wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anything not aligned with the breakdown here is just straight up racist hiring practices So, every field and job market has exactly the same distribution as the entire country?

Wouldnt it be nice. Or are you suggesting that some races / genders / etc are better at some things than others?

I'm not sure that this isn't bait, but, given enough somewhat arbitrary slicing of the data (gender, age, loose race groups etc.), surely it'd be unlikely that there wouldn't be some biased slices?

It's basically p-hacking: if you come up with enough ways of analysing data, you'll find something "significant".

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#148

Post by mlboss »

snickerbockers wrote: post #132

out of curiosity, how does casteism even work? Is it like racism in that you can look at somebody and usually figure out what caste they are visually?

Skin color is not a good predictor. You can make a guess by last name,

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#149

Post by tablespoon »

rayiner wrote: post #89
boppo1 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't lose much either. I'd argue they'd gain face in today's climate. "DEI best practices aren't just for white people anymore" is probably a good look.

Ironically it tends to be high caste Indians who push this stuff (perhaps because of higher education levels). Maybe they’ll be circumspect about dishing it out to white people after some sessions having to confess their “Brahmin privilege.”

>> Wouldn't lose much either. I'd argue they'd gain face in today's climate. "DEI best practices aren't just for white people anymore" is probably a good look.

> Ironically it tends to be high caste Indians who push this stuff (perhaps because of higher education levels).

High caste Indian immigrants or their American children? I have trouble imagining someone raised outside of the American cultural context getting enthusiastic about DEI in that way.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#150

Post by netsharc »

snickerbockers wrote: post #132

out of curiosity, how does casteism even work? Is it like racism in that you can look at somebody and usually figure out what caste they are visually?

I know one of the identifiers is one's surname, for more detail:

https://www.quora.com/In-India-how-do-you-tell-what-caste-so...

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