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Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

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Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#101

Post by martyvis »

codedokode wrote: post #82
wpietri wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. Nah. Financial crimes cause real harm. And financial penalties frequently aren't sufficient disincentive. Imagine that I have no assets but am a good talker. So I go out an launch an "investment fund" that is just a Ponzi scheme. Let's suppose I take in $50m, pocket $10m, and spend the rest on "investment returns" and appearing to run a real business. I live high on the…

> at which point many too-trusting people have lost their lifes' savings People should be a little smarter and not fall for Ponzi schemes. Furthermore, many people who invest in such schemes, understand how they work but hope to get profit before it collapses.

I'm assuming you are actually a troll, or maybe you haven't actually looked beyond the headline. Many "schemes" are very legitimate looking, offering modest returns. At the moment with very low bank deposit even a 10% investment fund is attractive. Also vulnerable often cannot distinguish good will from good acting by purveyors.

Just recently it has come to light that a crooked funeral fund here in Australia has been preying on indigenous people for years with no prospect on their deposits being returned

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#102

Post by sadhorse »

vorpalhex wrote: post #96
wpietri wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. Nah. Financial crimes cause real harm. And financial penalties frequently aren't sufficient disincentive. Imagine that I have no assets but am a good talker. So I go out an launch an "investment fund" that is just a Ponzi scheme. Let's suppose I take in $50m, pocket $10m, and spend the rest on "investment returns" and appearing to run a real business. I live high on the…

Being raped, assaulted or having a family member murdered is worse than losing money. Money can be repaid. You can't be unraped.

What about death as a result of money stolen from public health?

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#103

Post by mywacaday »

codedokode wrote: post #80
justapassenger wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. Financial crimes, aka crimes rich people commit, to be richer, deserve much more harsh treatment that we give them today. You can go to jail for years for shoplifting (aka crimes poor people commit) few thousand dollars worth of goods. People should be much more often sentenced to go to jail for life for committing millions of dollars worth of financial crimes.

Financial crimes are not violent and therefore should be punished lightly.

Clients of Bearings bank and Nick Leeson would disagree

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#104

Post by mikeyouse »

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #92
mikeyouse wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just bottomless wells of bad faith arguments. It's incredible.

We were talking about marijuana prosecutions in the US vs. Russia. How is it "bad faith" to mention prosecutions in San Francisco?

When was the last prosecution in California? Are there any people in jail today for the crime? What was the average sentence of the 6 people per year who went to prison while Harris was DA? What crime were those people convicted of and what quantity of drugs did it involve? Do you think Chesa was inappropriately lenient in choosing not to prosecute crimes? The tack of your supposed argument let’s me know plenty enough that I’m not remotely interesting in continuing this conversation.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#105

Post by sadhorse »

chrischen wrote: post #67
EdwardDiego wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah my brother had a child with his Japanese wife last year, and she became very unwell mentally post-partum, but won't seek treatment. He's desperately unhappy, but he has to stay in the marriage, as he has no chance in hell of seeing his son if he leaves, foreign spouses never win a custody dispute in Japanese courts, and Japan does not do shared custody.

I think something similar happened go some youtuber (google Tech lead guy on youtube) where his wife who is Japanese took their (I think American) child to Japan and now he cannot even see his child.

One can only wonder what led her to do this to him (as a millionaire).

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#106

Post by Nasrudith »

wfleming wrote: post #81
themitigating wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"He had essentially zero chance of being acquitted" - So if I commit a crime it's morally acceptable to flee justice if the probability or evidence exceeds a certain threshold? In other words, the more proof there is that I committed a crime gives me more justification to avoid punishment? "He was the victim of Nissan executives who didn't like having a gaijin be their boss:" Prove it. "If you disagree with that, sup…

> He had essentially zero chance of being acquitted I think GP was referring to the fact that Japan has an over 99% conviction rate. Even if we presume that Japan has unusually high quality prosecutors and judges, that rate is so high that I think it’s reasonable to presume a fair number of innocent people are getting convicted (which happens lots of places, of course, but Japan’s conviction rate is still unusual).

There is another factor to it - not trying cases which aren't certain victories as joining that 1% of the conviction rate is an extremely shameful failure. The conviction rate is a "smell" regardless of how you slice it.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#107

Post by pfisherman »

trhway wrote: post #83
CamperBob2 wrote: post #18

Wow, not hard to see how the next 9/11 will happen. The staff at the charter jet terminal were almost criminally clueless. "So, how exactly does the security work around here, anyway? Is this huge crate going to be X-rayed? Because it needs to not be X-rayed. Also, here's a $10,000 tip, just to make sure you, um, don't remember us."

Laws, including custom checks, passport checks, etc. are for regular people. There was even a recent program on NPR how different is the life of super-wealthy. And while super-wealthy is a totally different game, even upper middle class money already distort the reality in a much more comfortable way. I'm watching a case in Santa Clara of an NVIDIA director, a Russian immigrant, who 2 years ago being drunk and speedi…

> My guess is that he will have that charade going for a long as possible.

I don’t know about the this. Money and fame didn’t save Phil Spector and it won’t save him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Spector

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#108

Post by StanislavPetrov »

orf wrote: post #44
Cupertino95014 wrote: post #30

Since: 1) He had essentially zero chance of being acquitted, and 2) He was the victim of Nissan executives who didn't like having a gaijin be their boss: In his shoes, I would feel morally justified in escaping. Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. If you disagree with that, suppose Britney Griner somehow escaped from Russian "justice"? How would you feel then? Edit. Everyone talking about hypothetical burgl…

That’s ridiculous. A crime is a crime, and stealing money - be it physically or on paper - has real repercussions to real people. It deserves more than a financial penalty.

>A crime is a crime

This is most certainly false. A crime is a violation of a law. Laws are passed by groups of people, not handed down by some infinitely wise and just being. For example, in many African nations, it is illegal to be gay. Would someone imprisoned for the "crime" of being gay be justified in escaping? Would Julian Assange be justified in escaping his dungeon for exposing the crimes of the US government?

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#109

Post by mrtksn »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #57
snovv_crash wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the argument here is that being in prison is a bad experience and wanting to escape is normal, natural human behaviour. As such, the onus is not on the prisoner to stay inside, but on the guards to keep them there. Escaping is, as such, not a crime in itself.

Evading a punishment is pretty universally seen as a crime, not sure why you'd think otherwise.

Not in Germany, apparently.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#110

Post by themitigating »

codedokode wrote: post #80
justapassenger wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. Financial crimes, aka crimes rich people commit, to be richer, deserve much more harsh treatment that we give them today. You can go to jail for years for shoplifting (aka crimes poor people commit) few thousand dollars worth of goods. People should be much more often sentenced to go to jail for life for committing millions of dollars worth of financial crimes.

Financial crimes are not violent and therefore should be punished lightly.

Why does violence matter when determining a punishment?

Someone stealing my life savings will have a much greater impact than someone punching me in the face.

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