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Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

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Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#61

Post by EdwardDiego »

rado wrote: post #46

It's good that this case pulled the lid off (sorry) Japan's questionable justice system. See also: child abduction in mixed marriages https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/their-children-were-taken-...

Yeah my brother had a child with his Japanese wife last year, and she became very unwell mentally post-partum, but won't seek treatment. He's desperately unhappy, but he has to stay in the marriage, as he has no chance in hell of seeing his son if he leaves, foreign spouses never win a custody dispute in Japanese courts, and Japan does not do shared custody.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#62

Post by finikytou »

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #30

Since: 1) He had essentially zero chance of being acquitted, and 2) He was the victim of Nissan executives who didn't like having a gaijin be their boss: In his shoes, I would feel morally justified in escaping. Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. If you disagree with that, suppose Britney Griner somehow escaped from Russian "justice"? How would you feel then? Edit. Everyone talking about hypothetical burgl…

there are plenty of britney griner in california in jail for weed thanks to the same people that now fight for freeing britney griner.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#63

Post by iforgotpassword »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #57
snovv_crash wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the argument here is that being in prison is a bad experience and wanting to escape is normal, natural human behaviour. As such, the onus is not on the prisoner to stay inside, but on the guards to keep them there. Escaping is, as such, not a crime in itself.

Evading a punishment is pretty universally seen as a crime, not sure why you'd think otherwise.

Because it's a natural instinct to seek freedom. It's in human nature. Like, expecting a prisoner to keep sitting in their cell when suddenly all doors spring open is ridiculous.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#64

Post by nicolas_t »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #22
mrtksn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is rich and able, I would have done the same if I was in his shoes so I don't judge him from moral perspective. I'm on the same page with the Germans on this one, i.e. it shouldn't be a crime and it's not wrong to escape from prison. That said, not being him, I really don't like the narrative built around how Japanese prisons are horrible and it's justified to not serve for crimes in Japan. I also wonder if the "J…

I've read that Japanese prosecutors win something like 98% of the cases they bring. If true, it suggests that either they let a lot of crimes go unprosecuted in Japan, which doesn't ring true, or that their police have godlike powers of investigation and discernment (ditto), or that the adversarial court system really is a bit too adversarial from the defendant's point of view. So I can't say I wouldn't have done the…

It's actually more than 99% conviction rate with some sources [1] saying 99.9%.

A great movie on the Japanese judicial system is I just didn't do it (Soredemo boku wa yattenai) [2] It's a phenomenal movie but really shows that Japan has a real issues.

Given that if I were Ghosn, I'd have escaped too, there was no way for him to get a fair trial in Japan.

[1] https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-topics/c05401/order-in-the-c... [2] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0794350/

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#65

Post by themitigating »

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #30

Since: 1) He had essentially zero chance of being acquitted, and 2) He was the victim of Nissan executives who didn't like having a gaijin be their boss: In his shoes, I would feel morally justified in escaping. Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. If you disagree with that, suppose Britney Griner somehow escaped from Russian "justice"? How would you feel then? Edit. Everyone talking about hypothetical burgl…

"He had essentially zero chance of being acquitted" - So if I commit a crime it's morally acceptable to flee justice if the probability or evidence exceeds a certain threshold? In other words, the more proof there is that I committed a crime gives me more justification to avoid punishment?

"He was the victim of Nissan executives who didn't like having a gaijin be their boss:" Prove it.

"If you disagree with that, suppose Britney Griner somehow escaped from Russian "justice"? How would you feel then?" - They aren't related cases with completely different circumstances and crimes. It also doesn't matter.

To bad Britney Griner doesn't have the $15 million~ that Ghosen needed to escape. https://fortune.com/2020/01/10/carlos-ghosn-net-worth-2020-f...

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#66

Post by mensetmanusman »

legitster wrote: post #43
Teever wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. Can you explain this one? Do you believe violent crimes require a violent penalty?

No, but the only strong case for imprisonment as a punishment is to separate violent people from the rest of society.

That is a form of violence. Think about how many people commit suicide when they lose money for one reason or another.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#67

Post by chrischen »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #61
rado wrote: post #46

It's good that this case pulled the lid off (sorry) Japan's questionable justice system. See also: child abduction in mixed marriages https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/their-children-were-taken-...

Yeah my brother had a child with his Japanese wife last year, and she became very unwell mentally post-partum, but won't seek treatment. He's desperately unhappy, but he has to stay in the marriage, as he has no chance in hell of seeing his son if he leaves, foreign spouses never win a custody dispute in Japanese courts, and Japan does not do shared custody.

I think something similar happened go some youtuber (google Tech lead guy on youtube) where his wife who is Japanese took their (I think American) child to Japan and now he cannot even see his child.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#68

Post by yomkippur »

KerrAvon wrote: post #6
yomkippur wrote: post #4

Quoted post unavailable.

it’s really not that clear cut, though

he is also wanted in France for similar embezzlement, I don't understand why so many expats and people who never been in Japan are suddenly defending a grifter.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#69

Post by mikeyouse »

finikytou wrote: post #62
Cupertino95014 wrote: post #30

Since: 1) He had essentially zero chance of being acquitted, and 2) He was the victim of Nissan executives who didn't like having a gaijin be their boss: In his shoes, I would feel morally justified in escaping. Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. If you disagree with that, suppose Britney Griner somehow escaped from Russian "justice"? How would you feel then? Edit. Everyone talking about hypothetical burgl…

there are plenty of britney griner in california in jail for weed thanks to the same people that now fight for freeing britney griner.

Point me to a single person in California jail for 9 years for possession of under 1 gram of weed. CA legalized weed and then went the extra mile (which many states haven't) to expunge existing convictions and for people being punished currently, downgrading most felony possession counts to misdemeanors and reducing/dismissing the rest of the charges;

https://www.pubdef.ocgov.com/programs/dismissal-and-re-sente...

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#70

Post by sockaddr »

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #30

Since: 1) He had essentially zero chance of being acquitted, and 2) He was the victim of Nissan executives who didn't like having a gaijin be their boss: In his shoes, I would feel morally justified in escaping. Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. If you disagree with that, suppose Britney Griner somehow escaped from Russian "justice"? How would you feel then? Edit. Everyone talking about hypothetical burgl…

> Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty

Eyeball related crimes deserve an eyeball-related penalty, car crimes deserve a car penalty, gun crimes deserve a gun penalty.

I mean, really. Did you even try to think of one counter-example to your claim before you wrote it?

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