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Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

wsj.com

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Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#71

Post by Cupertino95014 »

themitigating wrote: post #65
Cupertino95014 wrote: post #30

Since: 1) He had essentially zero chance of being acquitted, and 2) He was the victim of Nissan executives who didn't like having a gaijin be their boss: In his shoes, I would feel morally justified in escaping. Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. If you disagree with that, suppose Britney Griner somehow escaped from Russian "justice"? How would you feel then? Edit. Everyone talking about hypothetical burgl…

"He had essentially zero chance of being acquitted" - So if I commit a crime it's morally acceptable to flee justice if the probability or evidence exceeds a certain threshold? In other words, the more proof there is that I committed a crime gives me more justification to avoid punishment? "He was the victim of Nissan executives who didn't like having a gaijin be their boss:" Prove it. "If you disagree with that, sup…

> "He was the victim of Nissan executives who didn't like having a gaijin be their boss:" Prove it.

Oh, sure. Like underhanded whisper campaigns and unspoken agreements are susceptible to "proof."

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#72

Post by chrischen »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #22
mrtksn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is rich and able, I would have done the same if I was in his shoes so I don't judge him from moral perspective. I'm on the same page with the Germans on this one, i.e. it shouldn't be a crime and it's not wrong to escape from prison. That said, not being him, I really don't like the narrative built around how Japanese prisons are horrible and it's justified to not serve for crimes in Japan. I also wonder if the "J…

I've read that Japanese prosecutors win something like 98% of the cases they bring. If true, it suggests that either they let a lot of crimes go unprosecuted in Japan, which doesn't ring true, or that their police have godlike powers of investigation and discernment (ditto), or that the adversarial court system really is a bit too adversarial from the defendant's point of view. So I can't say I wouldn't have done the…

The US has a lower prosecution rate because they “shoot first and ask questions later.” That is, prosecutors are more aggressive in just trying to blame someone… anyone… whether guilty or not by using plea deals. Of course conviction rate suffers because there is such a high percentage of false accusations that refuse plea bargains.

So you completely missed the case that Japan’s conviction rate is high because they may only prosecute people when there is actual evidence.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#73

Post by protastus »

Nextgrid wrote: post #24
CamperBob2 wrote: post #18

Wow, not hard to see how the next 9/11 will happen. The staff at the charter jet terminal were almost criminally clueless. "So, how exactly does the security work around here, anyway? Is this huge crate going to be X-rayed? Because it needs to not be X-rayed. Also, here's a $10,000 tip, just to make sure you, um, don't remember us."

I'm not sure how much this is a 9/11 risk? As far as I know the protection against "taking a jet and crashing it into a building" is a squadron of fighter jets that are quickly dispatched to (if necessary) shoot down any plane on a risky path. That's exactly what happened when some mentally unstable airport employee "stole" a plane and committed suicide by crashing it into the water after a few stunts. The other risk…

> As far as I know the protection against "taking a jet and crashing it into a building" is a squadron of fighter jets that are quickly dispatched to (if necessary) shoot down any plane on a risky path.

It's 16 miles from JFK airport to Manhattan. A jet plane can fly this distance in less than 5 minutes at sea level, within a normal flight envelope.

There's latency recognizing from the ground that an airliner needs to be intercepted, launching alert fighters, and getting authorization to shoot down.

Trust is involved in allowing a big container to be loaded on a plane.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#74

Post by Cupertino95014 »

mikeyouse wrote: post #69
finikytou wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are plenty of britney griner in california in jail for weed thanks to the same people that now fight for freeing britney griner.

Point me to a single person in California jail for 9 years for possession of under 1 gram of weed. CA legalized weed and then went the extra mile (which many states haven't) to expunge existing convictions and for people being punished currently, downgrading most felony possession counts to misdemeanors and reducing/dismissing the rest of the charges; https://www.pubdef.ocgov.com/programs/dismissal-and-re-sente...

So if the people Kamala Harris prosecuted got less than 9 years, that's OK?

"only a few dozen people were sent to state prison for marijuana convictions under Harris’ tenure." https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/09/11/kamala-harris-prosecu...

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#75

Post by [deleted] »

sockaddr wrote: post #70
Cupertino95014 wrote: post #30

Since: 1) He had essentially zero chance of being acquitted, and 2) He was the victim of Nissan executives who didn't like having a gaijin be their boss: In his shoes, I would feel morally justified in escaping. Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. If you disagree with that, suppose Britney Griner somehow escaped from Russian "justice"? How would you feel then? Edit. Everyone talking about hypothetical burgl…

> Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty Eyeball related crimes deserve an eyeball-related penalty, car crimes deserve a car penalty, gun crimes deserve a gun penalty. I mean, really. Did you even try to think of one counter-example to your claim before you wrote it?

[deleted]

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#77

Post by chrischen »

wpietri wrote: post #52
Cupertino95014 wrote: post #30

Since: 1) He had essentially zero chance of being acquitted, and 2) He was the victim of Nissan executives who didn't like having a gaijin be their boss: In his shoes, I would feel morally justified in escaping. Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. If you disagree with that, suppose Britney Griner somehow escaped from Russian "justice"? How would you feel then? Edit. Everyone talking about hypothetical burgl…

> Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. Nah. Financial crimes cause real harm. And financial penalties frequently aren't sufficient disincentive. Imagine that I have no assets but am a good talker. So I go out an launch an "investment fund" that is just a Ponzi scheme. Let's suppose I take in $50m, pocket $10m, and spend the rest on "investment returns" and appearing to run a real business. I live high on the…

I’d imagine the penalty at least involves returning any stolen money, but a garnishment on future income and additional IRS scrutiny should do it.

I actually think jail time isn’t enough a disincentive without the financial penalty because otherwise it can just be a cost of doing business.

For example there was a chronic thief in SF that stole peoples’ laptops from cafes. She was jailed multiple times but because the police had no way of knowing where she hid the stolen goods they were still never recovered and presumably she kept her earnings even after jail time.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#78

Post by mikeyouse »

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #74
mikeyouse wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point me to a single person in California jail for 9 years for possession of under 1 gram of weed. CA legalized weed and then went the extra mile (which many states haven't) to expunge existing convictions and for people being punished currently, downgrading most felony possession counts to misdemeanors and reducing/dismissing the rest of the charges; https://www.pubdef.ocgov.com/programs/dismissal-and-re-sente...

So if the people Kamala Harris prosecuted got less than 9 years, that's OK? "only a few dozen people were sent to state prison for marijuana convictions under Harris’ tenure." https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/09/11/kamala-harris-prosecu...

Just bottomless wells of bad faith arguments. It's incredible.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#79

Post by tokinonagare »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #61
rado wrote: post #46

It's good that this case pulled the lid off (sorry) Japan's questionable justice system. See also: child abduction in mixed marriages https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/their-children-were-taken-...

Yeah my brother had a child with his Japanese wife last year, and she became very unwell mentally post-partum, but won't seek treatment. He's desperately unhappy, but he has to stay in the marriage, as he has no chance in hell of seeing his son if he leaves, foreign spouses never win a custody dispute in Japanese courts, and Japan does not do shared custody.

This is indeed a big issue with international marriages. The solution I thought of (because I was living in Japan for few years, so may someday get stuck in a similar situation) would be to steal the kid before she does, like using holidays abroad, or even just like taking a fly with the kid after school or something. Basically boils down to firing first. Risky if the spouse find it, and of course that mean leaving a lot of things (possibly financial assets) behind.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#80

Post by codedokode »

justapassenger wrote: post #54
Cupertino95014 wrote: post #30

Since: 1) He had essentially zero chance of being acquitted, and 2) He was the victim of Nissan executives who didn't like having a gaijin be their boss: In his shoes, I would feel morally justified in escaping. Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. If you disagree with that, suppose Britney Griner somehow escaped from Russian "justice"? How would you feel then? Edit. Everyone talking about hypothetical burgl…

> Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. Financial crimes, aka crimes rich people commit, to be richer, deserve much more harsh treatment that we give them today. You can go to jail for years for shoplifting (aka crimes poor people commit) few thousand dollars worth of goods. People should be much more often sentenced to go to jail for life for committing millions of dollars worth of financial crimes.

Financial crimes are not violent and therefore should be punished lightly.
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