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A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

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Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#451

Post by smsm42 »

TylerLives wrote: post #321
smsm42 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the "culture of power", can you give some examples? I thought I did, in my comments uptopic. If you expect me to write a doctoral thesis on modern Russian culture, sorry, I am neither qualified nor it is the right place. While I have plenties of anecdotal data, and would be glad to share my experience to the extent I can, systematic treatment of a culture is not something one could do in a random comment on…

If you're talking about your first comment in this chain(about people refusing to take responsibility), I don't see how that's related to multiculturalism. I've never been to Russia, and I don't even watch Russian media often, but from what I can see, they're trying to promote multiculturalism a lot. It's not that I don't believe that Russia has a "culture of power" and that people at the top all share the same ideol…

The culture comment was an answer to the critique that you can not talk about culture in Russia because there are many cultures. There are, but one of them is dominant. They do not promote multiculturalism, at least not what is meant by that in the West. On the contrary, the staple of their official ideology is preserving Russia's uniqueness at all costs - even at the cost of rejecting humanist values that are considered "Western". Other cultures are allowed if they are subservient to the imperial culture - same story in every empire, really, take a book about any imperial culture, Russia's one would have similar traits, it's not unique in that regard. The main source of conflict now is that imperial culture needs much more of an empire than Russia currently is, thus obsession with territorial conquest, despite already having huge undeveloped and neglected territories.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#453

Post by smsm42 »

gdy wrote: post #338
smsm42 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Misrepresenting - sure. Accurately representing - well, I guess it still can be propaganda, but propagating the truth bears no shame. It is interesting though how the defender of Russian culture chooses to wield a Western weapon of "hate speech" accusation. In Russia, "hate speech" would be something that the government does not approve of. Including telling the literal truth - such as calling the war the war - or ev…

"It is interesting " What exactly is interesting? Hate speech is bad, unless it is directed at Russians and then it is not hate speech but 'accurate representation'? 'In Russia, "hate speech" would be something that the government does not approve of' Not really. 'The motive of political hatred' can be added to the case as an aggravating circumstance, but the charge itself is 'discreditation of Russian army' or 'spre…

The interesting part is a cynical attempt to use a Western culture war weapon in order to promote Russia, which rejects Western values and hates and wants to destroy both sides.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#454

Post by 93po »

hinkley wrote: post #79
bagels wrote: post #46

In factories humans are physically excluded from the reach of robotic arms like this. It is negligence to operate this thing where it could reach a kid.

Couldn’t they have done this with magnets and the arm mounted upside down below the table where it couldn’t eat people? They did it like this for a lot of reasons. One is because it looks cooler to have the arm moving pieces around. “Looking cooler” has been the cause of many a lost limb and more than a few eyeballs.

It needs the ability to lift and remove pieces from the board too, which can't be done with magnets

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#455

Post by j5155 »

93po wrote: post #454
hinkley wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn’t they have done this with magnets and the arm mounted upside down below the table where it couldn’t eat people? They did it like this for a lot of reasons. One is because it looks cooler to have the arm moving pieces around. “Looking cooler” has been the cause of many a lost limb and more than a few eyeballs.

It needs the ability to lift and remove pieces from the board too, which can't be done with magnets

https://youtu.be/AQLOj-TylGg The board can be designed in such a way that magnets always work.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#456

Post by gdy »

DonHopkins wrote: post #446
gdy wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's see if you accept my answer as I accepted yours. I don't believe our government thinks that gays should be violently persecuted.

Quoted post unavailable.

"And you should know better."

Do I? Please quote the wikipedia article you linked to.

"You also dodged all the other questions about what YOU believe, again. Why are you so coy and shy about that? Do you have something to hide?"

I don't feel like answering them.

"Do you prefer that gay Russian children commit suicide"

Quoting from your own link: "Because reliable data does not exist, we do not know whether LGBT youth die by suicide more frequently than their straight peers".

I don't want any "children commit suicide and be beaten and murdered". Or adults.

You see the root of the problem in homosexuality not considered normal, I see the root of the problem in shitty people who bully and attack ones who are not considered normal. Gay, fat, short, disabled, ugly, weak, stupid, weird, nerdy, anything else -- none of them deserve to be harassed.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#457

Post by BrandoElFollito »

moffkalast wrote: post #352
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #346

I wonder why the robot did it. Was it because it was programmed to also be the arbiter? And actively prevent people from making illegal moves? If so the designers are idiots. Or maybe it was a bug and it thought that the finger was a piece? If so the designers make a bug. Still worrisome but at least not plain idiotic.

It probably only checks the state before/after and blindly does the arm movement in between as is usual for these industrial robots, since they can do this quite percisely without active corrections. I doubt it has any kind of hand or finger detection built in, since all you need is to figure out the board state.

I had a look several times at the video (the quality is awful) and it seems that it is going for the position of the piece of the boy. This cannot happen in chess.

So if it squeezed his finger because it expected his own piece there, then this is a serious bug in the program.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#458

Post by lotusmars »

KuiN wrote: post #354
lotusmars wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a quote attributed to Zhukov, Stalin’s army general: “No sparing soldiers, women will give birth to more of them!”

This is a falsely attributed quote. There's zero record of Zhukov (or anyone, particularly none of the various people this quote has been attributed to) saying this. It's a lazy stereotype of the CCCP's strategy during WWII and absolutely incorrect.

Yet it is still valid for their strategy during the invasion of Ukraine.

They don’t need sophisticated weaponry or artillery. Just a slow push until the opponent is exhausted.

Losses are irrelevant: they can always be hidden or denied because you control media.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#459

Post by akhmatova »

thisishard wrote: post #154

I watched the video and the robot most certainly did not grab the boy's index finger. Sequence of events 1. The robot was capturing the boy's queen with a bishop. For that, it first removed the queen from the board. 2a. The robot next moved the bishop onto the square where the queen was previously located. 2b. At the same time, the boy prematurely moved his rook to the same square, he completed the move before the bi…

This attempt to exculpate the robot's actions (more more directly: the actions of its human programmers) is just ... bizarre. Yeah, the robot didn't specifically "grab" the boy's finger. It grabbed a piece while the boy's finger was still on it. Without having any idea what it was doing.

Same thing, in other words -- in terms of the end result. And more to the point, it was an action that a human player would most likely have bounced back from, before completing the intended motion.

The robot didn't do anything it wasn't programmed to do.

Yup, it sure didn't. And that's precisely the problem.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#460

Post by throwaway894345 »

NamTaf wrote: post #186
throwaway894345 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: is Tesla’s autopilot crashing more often or more severely than human drivers?

To some degree, that doesn't matter . An underlying feature of a competent approach to safety in design is that the design must take maximal ownership of eliminating risk to all people in all scenarios that can be reasonably expected to result from the design. The moment Telsa set expectations by proclaiming it as autopilot, they took the corresponding responsiblity to make sure it did not generate any scenarios whic…

I really don’t see how anything could matter more than “does it save lives, on balance”. If it saves thousands of lives annually, then why would we let tenuous marketing grievances forestall its deployment? How many lives should we sacrifice over branding concerns? Of course, if the technology doesn’t save lives on balance, then that’s reason enough to restrict deployment, but in any case marketing issues don’t seem like they should factor into the calculus.
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