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A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

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Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#41

Post by ClumsyPilot »

twayt wrote: post #10
kadoban wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're making a robot to interact with humans, part of that is making it safe.

You can always design something to be better but part of interacting with a machine is not assuming that it will do the safe thing 100% of the time and acting appropriately. If you're driving a car and it hydroplanes, is it the car's fault for losing traction? No, you should have been aware that it was a risk you were exposed to the moment you stepped into the car. Can you design a car that is less likely to hydropla…

that's not how the law works, if you are controlling a car and hydroplane into a child, you are going to prison.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#42

Post by lostapathy »

twayt wrote: post #10
kadoban wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're making a robot to interact with humans, part of that is making it safe.

You can always design something to be better but part of interacting with a machine is not assuming that it will do the safe thing 100% of the time and acting appropriately. If you're driving a car and it hydroplanes, is it the car's fault for losing traction? No, you should have been aware that it was a risk you were exposed to the moment you stepped into the car. Can you design a car that is less likely to hydropla…

Ironically, if this industrial robot were used in actual industry, it would have barriers in place to keep people out of this dangerous zone. Even there were adults are trained to work with it, we require safety rather and don’t blame the victim.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#43

Post by defrost »

twayt wrote: post #25
klyrs wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A killswitch wouldn't help here, the kid's finger was probably broken before he even felt the pain. Given the bot's behavior, it looks like it's programmed to move its arm down until it touches the table. It didn't notice that it encountered resistance, and kept pushing down. That's incredibly unsafe, and easy to fix: track actual vs expected position, and give up if any surprises are encountered.

Even if it wouldn't help in this exact situation, it should be a pre-requisite for any such tournaments just in case. It is an incredibly unsafe robot, but if the chess federation outlined the risks, who is at fault?

Certainly not the owners of the steam powered factory looms - those workers were told those belts could rip an arm off.

In all seriousness, machines that can break childrens hands should not be operating without effective safeguards near children. Full stop.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#45

Post by wferrell »

kortilla wrote: post #34
twayt wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

>people sign a disclaimer about the risks, they can not be held responsible. This isn’t adequate in civilized countries. You can’t run an amusement park that severs the limbs of 1% of the participants under the protection of a disclaimer.

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/preventable-death-o...

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#47

Post by Nextgrid »

antoniuschan99 wrote: post #38
Nextgrid wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The robot is a standard industrial robot arm that happens to be used for chess - it it was not made to be a chess robot. This is absolutely overkill for chess even just from a cost perspective so you wouldn't build something like this if you actually were building a chess robot. The amount of pressure this robot applies is totally adequate for its normal operating environment which is far away from humans. There migh…

I have a robot arm (Dobot MG400), it has a has a force sensitivity setting (5 levels) that stops when a collision happens. There's also an e-stop that you can hit that will stop the robot.

Out of curiosity, what do you use it for? I'd love to play around with one but I can't think of many use-cases beyond showing it off to guests.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#48

Post by bagels »

twayt wrote: post #18
est wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the looks of it, that's an industrial robot arm which was designed to operate no where near humans. The move paths were hard programed and has no obstacle avoidance procedure nor sensors. The robot arm had quite a strong pressure as the the victim were unable to free his/her finger.

Yea it is a very poorly designed chess robot but if they were going to use it in a competition like this, they should have at least briefed the users appropriately. Or maybe they did brief them appropriately but the child make a mistake. There isn't enough context in the video or article. But what's beyond stupid is claiming that a "chess robot broke the finger" of a kid as though it went rogue or operated beyond its…

Briefing won't keep people safe. What if the kid did everything right and there was a bug? Robots like this should not be within reach of people when powered.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#49

Post by Maursault »

klyrs wrote: post #20
twayt wrote: post #5

Quoted post unavailable.

A killswitch wouldn't help here, the kid's finger was probably broken before he even felt the pain. Given the bot's behavior, it looks like it's programmed to move its arm down until it touches the table. It didn't notice that it encountered resistance, and kept pushing down. That's incredibly unsafe, and easy to fix: track actual vs expected position, and give up if any surprises are encountered.

> and easy to fix

Yes, it is very easy to fix: remove the inefficient and entirely unnecessary robot arm and replace with sensors and electromagnets built into the chessboard so the chess engine can detect location of and move (magnetic) pieces electromagnetically.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#50

Post by makeitdouble »

twayt wrote: post #23
carbadtraingood wrote: post #14

The answer from the federation is unconscionable. They blamed the boy and then said they could not be held responsible. Fuck off, a kid made a reasonable kid movement. If the robot wasn't ready to be around children, it shouldn't have been deployed around children. And there should have been a big red button that immediately everything, within reach of every player.

Quoted post unavailable.

Setting responsibility on guardians for not having forseen or prevented that is a slippery slope, or at least leads to unintended consequences.

Imagine a world where guardians will never let a kid go somewhere or do something that they don’t have 100% knowledge of, or aren’t 100% sure it’s perfectly safe.

In this specific case:

- you wouldn’t expect that issue at first sight

- it looks fun enough to give it a try

- the kid disn’t die. It truely hurts and can have long lasting damages if not treated properly, but a finger broken is not the end of the world for the kid.

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