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A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

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Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#321

Post by TylerLives »

smsm42 wrote: post #284
TylerLives wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the "culture of power", can you give some examples? And what are your pronouns?

> What is the "culture of power", can you give some examples? I thought I did, in my comments uptopic. If you expect me to write a doctoral thesis on modern Russian culture, sorry, I am neither qualified nor it is the right place. While I have plenties of anecdotal data, and would be glad to share my experience to the extent I can, systematic treatment of a culture is not something one could do in a random comment on…

If you're talking about your first comment in this chain(about people refusing to take responsibility), I don't see how that's related to multiculturalism. I've never been to Russia, and I don't even watch Russian media often, but from what I can see, they're trying to promote multiculturalism a lot.

It's not that I don't believe that Russia has a "culture of power" and that people at the top all share the same ideology, but this is happening everywhere.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#322

Post by imtringued »

ALittleLight wrote: post #217
godelski wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AGI alignment is a vastly bigger problem But also far less likely to happen anytime soon. A bigger danger is when someone thinks a machine is sentient or "semi-conscious" (whatever that means) and naively uses it to do tasks it shouldn't.

I don't think you nor anyone else knows when AGI is likely to happen. I also don't think that incorrectly believing a machine is sentient when it is not is a "bigger danger." Again, an improperly aligned AGI could kill the entire human race. I'm not sure what harm incorrectly believing a machine is sentient might do, but I don't think it would be as bad as human extinction or enslavement which are both real possibili…

>Again, an improperly aligned AGI could kill the entire human race

Lots of humans are "improperly" aligned GI. Rouge humans like Hitler or Kim Jong Un haven't been very successful.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#323

Post by palmetieri2000 »

gdy wrote: post #313
rossvor wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said no such thing, he said that the planet was named "Матросская тишина" (seaman's silence) after this prison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrosskaya_Tishina . And you are aware that he's playing the russian version of the game, right? Translating some bits for the english audience. I'm sure he's perfectly aware what the name of the game is in russian (it's literally in the first shot of the video). Seems like…

You are right about the prison, I guess I missed both the word 'planet' and the prison name and filled in the blank, and made an unjust judgement of the author of the video. 'Seems like you watched 5min to just quickly find something to discredit and immediately dismiss it' That's quite an uncharitable interpretation. You are right about one thing though -- I gave up quite early. "I see no reason why it couldn't be a…

Considering your lack of charitability you had for my initial comment why would the person you are replying to interpret you as anything other than nitpicky and asinine?

You have added nothing to the conversation.

Also in what way would this ever be at all related to the context of judging the American nation as anything? The article is about a robot is Moscow and the comment I replied to is discussing if Russian subcultures or culture can seem Cartoonish.

Quit inventing battles to lose.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#324

Post by EUROCARE »

foverzar wrote: post #296
EUROCARE wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not letting people (and much less children) around industrial robots is not virtue signalling, it's basic safety and common sense. Where's everyone's protective headgear anyways? What if it starts spinning around because of an error in the Gcode? This thing could kill everyone around it with one swing. Where's the emergency stop button?

Don't switch the topic. You were saying something about blaming the kid and suddenly you are discussing the safety issues. Also, you haven't seen much chess robots, have you? "Industrial robot", my ass. Have you actually seen one? The one that "could kill everyone with one swing" is a tad different.

I think you're mistaking me with someone else.

Yep, I've seen and programmed many industrial robots. You would be surprised how easy it can be to kill a human with a swinging robotic arm, even a small one (such as the one here). Even a relatively light hit at the back of the head can be fatal.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#325

Post by imtringued »

carbadtraingood wrote: post #223
charcircuit wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A robot isn't just going to grab your piece since the rules of the game state it has to move its own piece.

Oh, that settles it. Robot cannot do things that are outside of the rules of chess. Kid should have known better than to open with the classic, "break my finger" opening from the regulation standard rules. Industrial robotics are incredibly dangerous. They operate without concern for anything in their path. Robotic arms like this can be lethal, and the idea that the robot wouldn't ever do anything unusual is, quite f…

The problem isn't that the robot did anything unusual, it did exactly what it was supposed to do which is crush everything in its path.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#326

Post by foverzar »

drew-y wrote: post #307
foverzar wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A soft blame, but a blame nonetheless. So, where are you from exactly? I am curious which culture draws an equation sign between "x triggered y" and "x is to blame for y". Diverting responsibility is making virtuous political statements, instead of analysing what went unexpected.

> We have nothing to do with the robot Is that not an explicit diversion of responsibility? They allowed the robot to operate at their event. I might buy a mistranslation, but seems like a stretch. I come from 8 years of experience in industrial robotics. That the boy triggered a “bug” is irrelevant. It's a distraction. The bug isn't the issue here. This kind of robot should not have been used in the first place. Tha…

> That the boy triggered a “bug” is irrelevant.

Why? How are you going to fix it then?

> This kind of robot should not have been used in the first place. That is my point.

Please, open your favorite search engine, find images for "chess robot" and tell me how the whole humanity had managed to fail in designing a default chess robot.

In any case, seems like we won't be seeing any chess robots in Russia anymore, which would be stupid as hell.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#327

Post by wakeupcall »

aj7 wrote: post #97

Looks like a robot that could load a 20kg bar of metal into a lathe.

And probably is. Looks like an off-the-shelf industrial arm from the video.

The common recommendation around these powerful automated machines is to stay clear over the entire range of motion. These are difficult to secure even if they have force-sensing features, for the simple fact that it's incredibly difficult to foresee all possible ways you might need these sensors, and the sensing capability might be skewed toward higher forces.

As others mentioned, this arm might stop by default if bumped, but maybe during the downward motion a sudden spike in pressure is expected to be seen to complete the step. Not taking sides here, just trying to explain that the entire concept of "fail safe" is _extremely_ hard to achieve even with apparently dumb moving machinery.

A better solution if people are involved is to design a robot that can always be overpowered. But such structurally weak arm might be quite tricky to move, and probably start oscillating like jello without proper dampening and motion control. Not something I would expect to find or be able to purchase due to the lack of practical utility (besides playing chess I guess).

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#328

Post by lotusmars »

Bost wrote: post #320
drew-y wrote: post #149

This is appalling. There is no world in which an industrial robot like that should be operating next to a child. Their force sensors are not nearly sensitive enough to stop before causing serious injury. Going fast enough, they can absolutely kill you. This just screams negligence to me. Cannot believe they tried to blame it on the child. There are robots, called Cobots, designed specifically for this type of environ…

In Russia, losses up to 4% are fine.

There is a quote attributed to Zhukov, Stalin’s army general:

“No sparing soldiers, women will give birth to more of them!”

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#330

Post by jhpaul »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #236
jhpaul wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a magnetic base on each piece and a table built on top of a pair of xyz movements holding two magnets. That way the brain can at any time grab its piece and make a move while nudging any obstructions out of the way temporarily. It could probably made to filp the polarity on the lower magnet causing the opponent piece to topple gently when appropriate. Seems very human proof and also exciting to watch in act…

It doesn’t even need to be that complicated. The moving pieces can move between other pieces. For example: https://youtu.be/JhoLEbUOYlk

Neat, and very cool that they're open sourcing design and software elements. The video had me thinking that this kind of thing must have been made before. It's exactly the sort of thing they used to sell in the skymall catalog. Sure enough: https://youtu.be/mrDy0dF8aQw
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