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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#461

Post by dukoid »

squarefoot wrote: post #302
kungito wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been multiple active wars in like 1/4 of the world the whole time since ww2 and all the time before that. The only thing different is that Ukraine is closer to EU than the rest of the countries.

Chechnya war also was very close and nobody cared since they were mostly Islamic, and the war in the former Yugoslavia happened just in the middle of Europe, but apparently many have already lost memory of it despite the atrocities committed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

Many people also did not care about Georgia. So while cultural proximity is certainly a factor, geographical proximity seems to be a significant factor, too.

I don't think Sreberenica is forgotten or was ignored in Europe. The West seems to be slow to wake up -- and Putin got high on his sequence of "successful" wars. I don't want to deny that hypocrisy exists here, but it doesn't justify Putins crimes anywhere.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#462

Post by willis936 »

namecheapTA wrote: post #181
system2 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like a troll account created 6 hours ago.

It's not a troll account. It's a throw away account because you can't trust people these days to not go after your company/family/reputation because you hold an unpopular opinion. I am not 'trolling' anyone here. In a few days I'll be back to using a regular sn here, and you'll like me as much as you used to.

No identity, no stakes, no reason to believe you. Put your reputation on the line if you want your opinions to be treated as anything other than computer-generated noise.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#463

Post by tut-urut-utut »

simonh wrote: post #373
pydry wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "Ukraine will remain neutral and will not join NATO" would have stopped this war. It's an unpopular fact but it's still true.

Either you believe in democracy, or you do not. If the Ukrainian people want to join the EU or NATO, and our people want them to join us as well, they have the right to make that choice as free sovereign people, and we should back them up. Any other response is itself subjugation, and capitulation to terror.

No post body was provided.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#464

Post by rad_gruchalski »

pydry wrote: post #342
KptMarchewa wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be insane to believe that. Would saying Gdańsk will be neutral and Germany can transport troops between East Prussia and rest of country stop Hitler? No, those are just pretexts. He'd just go further and further and attack while you'd be way way worse position.

Hitler didnt sit publicly on a border with troops threatening to invade for 3 months with one single demand. Putin isnt Hitler. He's a monster hes just not that specific monster.

> Putin isnt Hitler.

I agree. He wants to be like Stalin. He wants to be greater than Stalin.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#465

Post by rosndo »

pydry wrote: post #282
ogogmad wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that talking to Hitler is going to stop a war?

Saying "Ukraine will remain neutral and will not join NATO" would have stopped this war. It's an unpopular fact but it's still true.

Laughable to think that NATO expansion alone would’ve been sufficient for the cost-benefit calculation here.

Putin wants his name in history books.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#466

Post by thinkindie »

kikimora wrote: post #360
pydry wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "Ukraine will remain neutral and will not join NATO" would have stopped this war. It's an unpopular fact but it's still true.

Pardon my French but this is bullshit. Putin’s perverted logic goes like this - Ukrainian joins NATO, it establish missiles, Moscow in danger. The problem is Ukraine does not have to join NATO to have US missiles on its territory. Basic military agreement would allow that. Such an agreement technically was possible as early as 1992. The fact of life - there is no such agreement, hence whole idea of NATO or US threat…

also - in 2022 you don't really need to have basis with nuclear missiles at the doorstep to be a threat (so much that Putin also escalated on this topic too). You have submarines that can launch an attack with nuclear missiles, you have intercontinental vectors to deliver nukes.

Putin is just trying to restore the idea of Russian Empire and/or Soviet Union. Same as Hitler trying to restore the German Empire.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#467

Post by pkdpic »

teekert wrote: post #180

This whole situation is so surreal and disappointing. I grew up on Star Trek and somehow I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world. We know things should be solved with words because otherwise there are only losers. It’s how we raise our kids. I just keep thinking about how Jean Luc is looking down on us from orbit, slowly shaking his head whispering “Savages.”

It feels like a good time to watch encounter at farpoint. I cant think of the right Picard quote to pull from it but the general sentiment seems appropriate for the moment.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#468

Post by krisoft »

ajuc wrote: post #215

Basically Russia becomes North Korea or Putin dies. It's sad, but honestly, Russians tolerated the situation for far too long and the externalities were paid by everybody around them.

> Basically Russia becomes North Korea or Putin dies.

Or you know Putin can declare that the operation was succesfull and retreat back to Russia. Then he can spend the rest of his time spinning a story of how this was his plan all along. I don’t care as long as he is not making his people murder others at scale.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#469

Post by usrusr »

kungito wrote: post #206
teekert wrote: post #180

This whole situation is so surreal and disappointing. I grew up on Star Trek and somehow I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world. We know things should be solved with words because otherwise there are only losers. It’s how we raise our kids. I just keep thinking about how Jean Luc is looking down on us from orbit, slowly shaking his head whispering “Savages.”

There have been multiple active wars in like 1/4 of the world the whole time since ww2 and all the time before that. The only thing different is that Ukraine is closer to EU than the rest of the countries.

How many of those were active landgrabs though? Wars for redrawing borders have really become exceptionally rare. Particularly if you exclude those staged by Putin on some weak pretense (Putin, or whether his real name is. After the last weeks I don't believe a single word he says)

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#470

Post by yazaddaruvala »

pydry wrote: post #365
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then what? Everybody would be happy ever after? No, Russia wants a pro-Russia government in Ukraine, and they didn't like that Ukraine instead moved away from Russia and Russian influence via things like promoting the Ukranian language instead of Russian. It's a bullying tactic and infringes on a country's sovereignty.

Is peace not the highest priority? I dont want Ukraine to be pro Russian but I dont want Kyiv to be shelled more . I dont want a nuclear war more. It absolutely is a bullying tactic, but it's also the desperate act of a country that is trying to protect the integrity of its most exposed border from an explicitly hostile power (NATO).

Sadly it’s been proven. Peace cannot be the highest priority.

Based on the Paradox of Tolerance it would be “Peace is the highest priority amongst the peaceful, except against a non-peaceful entity.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

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