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The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

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Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#721

Post by whatthehex »

biztos wrote: post #515
strix_varius wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hilarious that we spend multiple thousands of dollars on sleek, elegant hardware and then hook up chunky plastic dongles to overcome their bad hardware interfaces. So I love the idea of these ports (agreed, they're basically "recessed dongles"). I couldn't lose them / forget them. They wouldn't take up space in my bag while I'm traveling. I could "set and forget" them to perfectly match whatever desktop / d…

The crazy thing here is that it’s not so hard to hit the standard set of “pro” ports — USB-C x 4 (new standard blabla) USB-A x 2 SD x 1 HDMI x 1 Phone/Mic I applaud the modular approach but Apple’s donglevision was the pure distillation of user-hostility between the Bean-Counter in Chief and the SVP, Thin Stuff. And all the industrial sheep who followed them. May we all recover…

Except charging and video, anyone needing a bag of dongles probably needs to rethink their workflow at this point.

It’s electrons flowing throw a medium. 9,000 connectors does not change that. That was all foisted on us by hardware vendors hoping to create the new gold standard.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#722

Post by yourapostasy »

Matthias1 wrote: post #573
NotPractical wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record, I also own a Mac: the MacBook Pro, 2019 baseline model. I used to enjoy the battery life (though it has been slowly getting worse to the point where I have considered reaching out to Apple about it since the battery is glued in and I can't replace it myself). I like the metal body. I also like macOS. My MacBook is not completely silent because it's an Intel mac, but the M1 would be, that's true. As fa…

This is a good point. "Repairability" is a lot less important to me than lifetime. Right now, I have a MacBook with AppleCare. The author's criticism with AppleCare is that it can take a week for Apple to repair the computer. That's reasonable for me. So the real test of the Framework computer is not in the first week. (Although the initial impression is very impressive!) The real test is whether I can, 3 years after…

> The author's criticism with AppleCare is that it can take a week for Apple to repair the computer. That's reasonable for me.

One of my biggest reasons for using Apple laptops was the now-defunct Joint Venture program. I enrolled all our company laptops under that program expressly for the loaner laptop during repairs and priority support. The ability for employees to walk into the nearest Apple Store to the current client account and walk out with a loaner the same day to restore from backups and return to the client the following day was a no-brainer business expense.

Now that program has no functional replacement for that benefit, switching to Framework looks extremely attractive, especially as more of our work finds ourselves in containers.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#723

Post by enragedcacti »

pavon wrote: post #644
kzrdude wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their modular ports use a lot of space, they could have much more ports built in, unfortunately.

Yeah, being limited to only 4 ports is a complete non-starter for me especially when you are required to use one of them to charge the laptop. So practically everybody is going to end up filling one of those modular ports with a USB-C module, when they could have easily fit two dedicated USB-C ports in the same space, with no practical loss in expandability.

I think the issue with this is the number of thunderbolt ports provided by the chipset. They have to choose between having only 4 ports that all work the same way or more than that where they don't all have the same features.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#724

Post by ohazi »

jbellis wrote: post #401
mikenew wrote: post #124

Been extremely happy with mine the past couple months. The little modular port attachments seemed like a novelty at first, but now it feels absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change. The only real Linux related quirk I've run into so far is that you have to disable panel self refresh (it's on by default and causes stuttering). Other than that tiny thing I pretty much…

How is the state of linux power saving (i.e., mobile battery life) in 2021? Last time I checked you could expect to get almost 2x the battery life on equivalent hardware with Windows or Mac OS.

Generally pretty good.

With tlp and a 5.10ish kernel, my T480 handles light web browsing at 3-5 W depending on display brightness (wqhd display). Heavier websites, high-res video decoding, etc. will bring it up to 7-10 W. Maybe 20 W when compiling something, or when attempting to use the (worthless) Nvidia GPU (which I leave powered down most of the time).

It has a dual battery setup with a 24 Wh internal battery and a 72 Wh external battery (I use the bulbous 6-cell, but you can get a thinner one if you prefer), so even when setting the charge stop thresholds at 80% to preserve cell lifetime, the computer easily lasts all day on battery.

That being said, it would be easy to find a random laptop that either idles at something stupid or that can't go to sleep properly because of just one wacky peripheral, making Linux power management seem bad.

Half the battle is picking the right starting point (e.g. a Thinkpad), and then setting everything up so you can actually measure the power in all of the different states so that you can actually confirm that your setup works properly before relying on it and ending up disappointed at the airport.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#725

Post by tantony »

yepguy wrote: post #655
teawrecks wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one wants all the different ports though, they usually just want the correct ports. If you're plugging more than 4 things into your laptop at once you should be using a dock.

If Framework opens this up for other companies to make modules, you might also see something like a USB port module with an integrated Logitech wireless mouse receiver. So then your mouse isn't even taking up a port. I know Bluetooth is a thing but you get the point. All of those tiny devices that people keep plugged into their laptop ports 24/7? This is a much better form factor for them, and you don't necessarily n…

> If Framework opens this up for other companies to make modules

From what I can tell, they already did that: https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards

> USB port module with an integrated Logitech wireless mouse receiver

This guy seems to be making something like that (minus the USB port): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_uOzNt-xwY

People are working on some interesting stuff. Example:

RP2040 expansion card: https://community.frame.work/t/rp2040-microcontroller-expans...

The engineers at framework seem to be very active on the forum engaging with the community.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#726

Post by concinds »

christophilus wrote: post #362
epistasis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the other reason is that customers don't care either. I certainly don't. The last desktop build I made 5 years ago hasn't had a single component changed in that entire time.

My laptop has a single thunderbolt port. I use it for my 5k monitor. If that port goes, I need to get a new laptop. (That new laptop will be the Framework laptop, if they offer a 15" hi-DPI option.) If my laptop was a Framework laptop, I'd just need to buy a pretty inexpensive new port and swap it out. It's a pretty big deal, in my opinion.

USB-C ports (the "internal" ones) are soldered to the motherbord on Framework, unlike on MacBooks, FYI

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#727

Post by fomine3 »

trainsplanes wrote: post #632
DiabloD3 wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, that's the issue with my MBPR from 2012: it has a 2560x1600 screen, as in, highly non-standard. It is neither 1920 wide, nor is it 16:9. If I had the option to have purchased it with 1920x1080, I would have.

> If I had the option to have purchased it with 1920x1080, I would have. For what purpose? I can’t imagine a single advantage to lower resolution.

Maybe use MacBook only for watching videos?

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#729

Post by ncallaway »

leephillips wrote: post #544
amiantos wrote: post #536

This is kind of a weird piece that really doesn't mean anything at all. I understand being in the "honeymoon phase" with a new piece of technology, but I don't feel like Cory is aware that he's doing that here. But there's some signs: He loved Thinkpads originally, but over the course of several years the company and the quality of the product went down the tubes. Now he's got a brand new laptop that he's only had fo…

I did think it odd that he was talking about the durability of a product that he'd barely unwrapped. But his other points seem cogent, and are orthogonal to how long he's used any of the products.

I don’t think he really talks about the durability, as much as the repairability.

For example, he notes that he hasn’t road tested it yet:

> However! Most of my use of this computer was from my sofa, while I was recovering from hip-replacement surgery. I haven't road-tested it at all.

> But I'll note here that if it turned out that a component failed due to my usual rough handling, I could replace it with a standard part in a matter of minutes, myself, in whatever hotel room I happened to be perching in, using a single screwdriver.

That reads to me as a pretty specific disclaimer and that he hasn’t stressed the durability, but more that he has a plan if it isn’t as durable.

(Though it’s a long article, and maybe he said something about durability that I missed)

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#730

Post by tomxor »

ricardobeat wrote: post #513
NotPractical wrote: post #492

The baseline, preassembled model starts at $1000. Windows 10 Home, quad-core i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB storage, a nice 2256x1504 display, thin and light (1.3kg, 11.7" x 9" x 0.6"). Compare that to your other thin and light options at this pricepoint. XPS 13, $1020 * i5 * 8 GB RAM * 256 GB storage * 1920 x 1200 display * 1.2 kg, 11.6" x 7.8" x 0.6" MacBook Pro: $1300 * M1 * 8 GB RAM * 256 GB storage * 2560 x 1600 display *…

It doesn't look like a no-brainer to me (already a Mac user). The MBP has a better screen, better battery life, performance, has a metal body, is completely silent and has nicer software. That said, you should get the Air instead which is $999 with almost exactly the same specs, minus the annoying touch bar, and a tad lighter at 1.29kg.

> already a Mac user [...] and has nicer software

Without starting flames... let's agree this is subjective.

For many people the options for the Framework are preferable.

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