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The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

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Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#121

Post by jeffbee »

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #109
jeffbee wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Framework is larger and weighs more than contemporary machines that have larger displays (e.g. ThinkPad X1 Carbon 9th generation), and it has worse performance and shorter battery life because soldered-in RAM isn't some kind of scam, it's actually much better . In short, it was not a lie that you get smaller, lighter, and better laptops with integration. You do, in fact, get all of those things.

The Framework laptop is 1mm thicker and 200 grams heavier than the 9th gen Carbon. We've gone long past the point of diminishing returns when it comes to size/weight vs repairability trade offs.

200g is 15%.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#122

Post by samtheDamned »

flatiron wrote: post #57
MMS21 wrote: post #49

>That tool – a small screwdriver – is also sufficient to upgrade the CPU CPU isn't up-gradable without switching out the entire mainboard, which I'm fine with, once I get an AMD version that is :)

ive seen a lot of requests for an AMD version but i always see people complain about AMD's linux support. Do you plan on running windows? If you are planning on Linux is the support really as bad as people complain. I say that because intel's linux support seems to me as top notch. ive never really had driver issues that i can think of

> i always see people complain about AMD's linux support

I've always heard the opposite, that AMD's linux support is amazing and that it's windows drivers are lacking. Especially in the GPU department where it struggles with minecraft.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#123

Post by giantrobot »

spijdar wrote: post #5
janandonly wrote: post #3

I just bought my very first MacBook Air ever. But seeing a laptop like this, with everything being customisable (in contrast to my Apple laptop: nothing can be customised or replaced by me) I feel a tinge of regret...

Well, if you regret it more than a tinge, and you just bought it from Apple, you can return it within a 2 week window, I believe.

They can also easily sell it for 80% of the retail price if it's outside the return window.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#124

Post by mikenew »

Been extremely happy with mine the past couple months. The little modular port attachments seemed like a novelty at first, but now it feels absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change.

The only real Linux related quirk I've run into so far is that you have to disable panel self refresh (it's on by default and causes stuttering). Other than that tiny thing I pretty much just installed my stuff and started using it.

One little anecdote: I got a card in the mail from Framework saying that there was a problem with the cable for the touchpad, and it had instructions on how to fix it. Contrast that to my experience with Apple where they would delete forum threads for laptop problems and spend years denying issues until legal action forced them to acknowledge it.

Anyway, I'm a fan. I'm really looking forward to when the marketplace opens up with some new parts. I really want my blank keyboard. I'm hoping 2021 will be the year I can own a laptop without a god damn windows logo emblazoned on the keys.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#125

Post by simion314 »

epistasis wrote: post #39
topspin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linus (the "tech tips" one) said something that sticks in my mind: "The only reason other companies can't do this - and Framework proved it - is because they don't care."

Well, the other reason is that customers don't care either. I certainly don't. The last desktop build I made 5 years ago hasn't had a single component changed in that entire time.

>The last desktop build I made 5 years ago hasn't had a single component changed in that entire tim

I upgraded my monitor and changed 2 keyboards(I am hard on them) with a laptop if you fuck your keyboard you probably have to use an external one or hope that replacing your laptop keyboard is cheap enough and you can find a spare.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#127

Post by webmobdev »

tshaddox wrote: post #54
tombert wrote: post #25

It feels like for years we were constantly told by these corporations "it's impossible to have slim, tiny laptops and make them customizable", and I guess at some level I believed that, and just accepted that laptops with upgradable components were a thing of the past. After seeing the framework, I'm more than a little annoyed that I fell for this. They proved you can have a slim, clean laptop that's somewhat modular…

Do you actually have any example of a corporation that makes laptops saying that it’s impossible to have slim laptops that are customizable? I would be very surprised if this ever happened, but I’m willing to be proven wrong.

Many companies do heavily promote the thinness of their device on launch. How many of them also say that it is thin and customizable? (And customisable doesn't mean choosing between 8 gb of soldered ram vs 16 gb of soldered ram). There's your answer.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#128

Post by epistasis »

topspin wrote: post #70
epistasis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the other reason is that customers don't care either. I certainly don't. The last desktop build I made 5 years ago hasn't had a single component changed in that entire time.

"customers don't care either" People care about Right To Repair; that's why the FTC has been pressured into action recently on the matter (not that I entertain any hope that that bunch of bought-and-paid-for bureaucrats will actually achieve anything.) Framework has blown a vast hole through the false arguments offered in opposition. One must simply care. That's all it takes. Every manufacturer that has opposed RTR h…

Do customers care though? Perhaps customer advocates do. And that's probably the best place for it, since it's such a niche and wonky idea.

And that's why "free markets" will never solve this. (And that's whether the "free" in free markets means freedom from regulations, or freedom for people to participate in the market).

IMHO this is why the European system of strong regulatory bodies tends to work better than the US system of "wait for a customer to experience damages, then recoup through the courts, and then the companies learn their lesson."

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#129

Post by y4mi »

bserge wrote: post #64
epistasis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the other reason is that customers don't care either. I certainly don't. The last desktop build I made 5 years ago hasn't had a single component changed in that entire time.

I've only had laptops for over a decade. And I had system board failures. Honestly, I'd rage if I had to throw it out together with the perfectly good CPU, GPU/VRAM and maybe half the RAM and pay for a used replacement board with all of those integrated. Or what, buy a rework station and risk damaging them or having them work improperly due to shit soldering skills? I guess I could learn to fix the board itself. But…

Why handcrafted instead of the framework laptop? Are you just itching to do that project, or is there some other issue you had with getting the laptop from them?

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#130

Post by CoolGuySteve »

GordonS wrote: post #89
epistasis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the other reason is that customers don't care either. I certainly don't. The last desktop build I made 5 years ago hasn't had a single component changed in that entire time.

It's not just about upgrading components, but also about having more choice during initial specification. It's a real PITA trying to find laptops that have almost everything you want, and inevitably you need to make multiple compromises. And it's also about replacing broken components without having to ditch the whole laptop. I'm really excited about how Framework could potentially shake up the whole industry!

Yes, this exactly. For the past year I've been trying to buy a Ryzen 5800u with at least 32GB of RAM and it has been fucking impossible.

As soon as Framework releases an AMD model I'm on board.

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