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How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

jeremyaboyd.com

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Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#361

Post by gowld »

samatman wrote: post #296
geraltofrivia wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amongst other gripes people have mentioned (and I agree with), here's another: cut. There does not seem to be a way to cut and paste a file/folder. The best I could figure out is to drag the icons, hold down the finger, and move the cursor to the desired folder on the sidebar (or another window) and release the finger. This is either extremely difficult to pull of, or I am less dexterous than I think I am. Why not ha…

Drag and drop has steadily gotten harder to use over the years. I have no explanation for it, it's maddening. Not cutting files is deliberate, I think. What should the OS do if you cut files, and then don't paste them and cut something else? Put them back, put them in the Trash? A sibling comment pointed out that there's a magic incantation for "paste and delete", but clearly the Mac way to do it is drag and drop. Wh…

"Cutting" is a no good, terrible idea, but a good idea would be to allow a "Grab", and then let the user navigate elsewhere and "Move grabbed item here." Mac doesn't have that because it breaks the visual/spatial metaphor.

Of course, "Copy" does too, yet Mac allows that...

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#362

Post by mcguire »

noahmasur wrote: post #273
throwaddzuzxd wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Finder is atrocious. It's the worst default macOS app and probably the worst program period I've ever used. It's been so dumbed down that it's basically unusable for anyone slightly experienced. - There's no way to create an empty file - There's no easy way to cut a file/folder (Cmd-x doesn't work) - There's no (?) way to keep everything consistently sorted and aligned - ~~Tags are useless and just take up space…

@coldtea already pointed out some tips, but some others to note: > - There's no (?) way to keep everything consistently sorted and aligned Press CMD-J to open up the visual option, you can auto group and sort, snap to grid (unsorted), choose a default view. > - No "parent folder"... You can either press CMD-UpArrow or just right click on the title bar to see all the folders above it. > It has less cool features (no t…

"Press CMD-J"

It's amazing how far Emacs has penetrated UI design.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#363

Post by chrisseaton »

gowld wrote: post #353
chrisseaton wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is it that when I click Finder, nothing actually opens? I'm not sure what you're doing wrong here - when I click the Finder icon it shows me the top Finder window, or opens a new one if there is no window. Is this not what it does for you?

That's only if the app is already open. If you Quit Finder when no windows are open, the first click opens no windows. Arguably, it's intuitive: * If you know what you are doing, you can go to the menu bar or click on the icon again. * If you don't know know what you are doing, the obvious action is to blame yourself and click the icon again, which does open a window (to the Recents folder). So it's gaslighting a lit…

> That's only if the app is already open. If you Quit Finder when no windows are open, the first click opens no windows.

I'm not sure what you're talking about - you cannot quit Finder and the app is always open. You can only force restart it but it is never in a quit state for you to do what you're say you're doing, and if you do force-start it it behaves as already described.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#364

Post by dsego »

throwaddzuzxd wrote: post #332
dsego wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no easy way to cut a file/folder (Cmd-x doesn't work) You don't need cut for files, you either want to duplicate the file or move it. For moving you copy it (cmd-c) and then move with cmd-opt-v. Cut doesn't really make sense for files. With text you cut out the text into a clipboard. Where does the file go when you cut it? Nowhere. There is no place where you can see that you had already cut a file but it's…

How does one discover Cmd-Opt-V? Even with a right click after copying a file, there's no "Move" option. Your explanation makes sense but doesn't really seem supported with Finder's UX since the "Move" terminology doesn't exist anywhere

Usually the option key uncovers more available options in context menus.

> How does one discover Cmd-Opt-V?

Keyboard shortcuts are not usually meant to be "discovered" (how do you discover ctrl+x?). You can learn and memorize them. Although, there is a common theme with the option/alt modifier on the mac.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#366

Post by mthoms »

mrweasel wrote: post #287
wraptile wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enter _enters_ the file - shocker!

It says ‘Return’ on my keyboard, so “return the file”, return from where? I’ve used macOS for 16 years, hitting enter/return still feels weird.

Mac user here. I've never given it much thought but you're right.

Return is a holdover from typewriters. It means "return the carriage to the left margin". I'm surprised the Mac keyboard doesn't say "Enter". It seems like a much more accurate word to describe what the button does.

Yes, "Return" applies in the context of editing text (return the cursor to left margin) but not in any other context on a computer I can think of.

I wonder why they continue to label it return and not enter.

/end random musing

edit: Downthread, someone provided a link to a StackOverflow page explaining how MacOS treats enter and return differently in some rare instances (it's program specific).

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#367

Post by cdcarter »

bane wrote: post #272
coldtea wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - There's no way to create an empty file Create it for what? To use to launch the app that handles it? Just open the respective app and save an empty or unedited file. > - There's no easy way to cut a file/folder (Cmd-x doesn't work) Copy as regularly (Cmd-C), and use Option-Cmd-V to move the file where you want to. > - There's no (?) way to keep everything consistently sorted and aligned Not sure what you mean. >…

You successfully managed to confirm all of the parent's complaints by showing that they aren't achievable in Finder, or don't follow a consistent convention and have to be done some other way.

What's wrong with command-up to go to the enclosing folder? As the poster stated, you don't even need to use the keyboard shortcut, there's a menu item.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#368

Post by makecheck »

Installation is definitely weird. Now that /Applications is protected anyway (it is a virtual folder showing content from both the built-in system image and the stuff you installed), I wonder why they don’t just streamline it and make disk images auto-install.

Those who did not use Macs before Mac OS X may not realize that Mac OS X started out approximating Mac OS 9 behaviors and never really completely ported over all its nice behaviors. The Finder in particular was a joy to use on Mac OS 9, and is somehow still clunky today. Even when they sort of move forward it does not seem as well thought out, e.g. pop-up windows worked beautifully on Mac OS 8.5 but Stacks seem like a kludge by comparison.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#369

Post by jayd16 »

I feel like Apple just trades discoverability for visual simplicity and "power features" aka users just knowing the shortcuts or what to click.

I think its a lot less intuitive but others seem to suffocate in analysis paralysis when presented with too many options so ymmv.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#370

Post by defaultname »

bane wrote: post #272
coldtea wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - There's no way to create an empty file Create it for what? To use to launch the app that handles it? Just open the respective app and save an empty or unedited file. > - There's no easy way to cut a file/folder (Cmd-x doesn't work) Copy as regularly (Cmd-C), and use Option-Cmd-V to move the file where you want to. > - There's no (?) way to keep everything consistently sorted and aligned Not sure what you mean. >…

You successfully managed to confirm all of the parent's complaints by showing that they aren't achievable in Finder, or don't follow a consistent convention and have to be done some other way.

It might "confirm" the complaints but it also invalidates them. Fighting against the way something works isn't particularly valid, and is often ignorance (in the "don't know" way, not the obnoxious way). The guy helped with some knowledge.

This goes both ways. There have been whiny posts by Mac users who go to Windows (or from iOS to Android) and then gripe and complain about everything that isn't what they're accustomed to. It's just as silly.

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