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How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

jeremyaboyd.com

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Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#251

Post by LocalPCGuy »

yesenadam wrote: post #230
hnlmorg wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On literally every other operating system. I've used dozens of platforms, some of them pretty obscure, some of them hobbyist, some of them were purpose built for hardware that stopped being manufactured 20, 30 or more years ago, and all of them supported return as a trigger in menus, be it graphical or text based. Finder really is the odd ball with regards to binding it to rename.

Well, it makes total sense in one way - ENTER toggles name editing. After you change a file name, you press ENTER to 'save' the new name and finish editing. That seems logical, I think. So why not have the same key to start editing the name too? In the way PLAY/STOP are usually the same button etc.

Because, as was mentioned, in every other context/OS, that is not what Enter does?

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#252

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

bluGill wrote: post #223
handrous wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point—that's probably the closest a file manager has come to being truly usable by most folks. Relatedly, IMO iOS took a huge step backwards in UX when iOS7 moved away from a highly spatial interaction metaphor for practically the entire OS—by which I don't mean the skeuomorphism, exactly, but things like folders sliding the screen "open" when tapped, so that they had a sense of physical location within…

It was great until you had a disk shared between the large monitors at school and the tiny one you had at home. So long as all screens are the same sized and layed out the same it worked good. However any form of using two different computers and the whole thing started to fall apart. Throw in multiple monitors and it isn't possible to do this usefully. It also only worked well when you only had a few files in any fo…

I think the concept may just need some slight modification to work in more modern cases like this. Namely, by making the interface zoomable.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#253

Post by yesenadam »

oceliker wrote: post #120
asattarmd wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst: pressing Enter to rename a file in finder. Command + Down arrow to open it. WTF!

Macbooks don’t have an Enter key. They have a Return key, which is different: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/47565/return-vs-en...

Oh thanks, that's fascinating, I thought they were the same thing. Reading the answers on that page, it sounds like there are quite a few programs in common use (e.g. Final Cut Pro) that treat ENTER and RETURN differently. I have both keys on this PC clone keyboard plugged into a Mac mini, so maybe I'll be able to use the numpad's ENTER for keyboard shortcuts. Thank you!

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#254

Post by irrational »

I think it really depends on what you are used to. I used Windows up through Windows XP, but in the early 2000s I got a job where they only used Macs, so I have solely used OSX/MacOS for nearly 20 years. Recently someone asked me for help with their Windows 10 machine. I was lost. I felt like a complete novice to the world of computers. I couldn't find anything and it took forever to figure out how to help this person. I finally had to resort to googling the issue and finding some step by step instructions. I don't think this is because Windows is less intuitive than MacOS. I think it is just a matter of what you are used to becomes intuitive.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#255

Post by BombNullIsland »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #123
TulliusCicero wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, by default Finder seems to hide directory structure from you. This seems to be Apple thinking it'll confuse people if they can see 'up' directories, but I think just as often it confuses people like me who are trying and failing to go up. I use all three major desktop OSes regularly now, and overall Windows just feels like the most user-friendly and straightforward, though of course it too has issues (e.g. vari…

You have to customise MacOS to show full file paths and hidden files. Someone at Apple decided that users couldn't be trusted with that super-secret information, but anyone who reads HN is going to find that frustrating. I go back to Windows occasionally and I still hate every single thing about it. The tiles, the file system, the telemetry, the intrusive updates that guarantee I'll have to wait for an undefined time…

"Fix The Effing Finder" has been a constant refrain from long term users all the way back to 10.1.5, they're never going to do it.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#256

Post by coldtea »

throwaddzuzxd wrote: post #205
rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

The Finder is atrocious. It's the worst default macOS app and probably the worst program period I've ever used. It's been so dumbed down that it's basically unusable for anyone slightly experienced. - There's no way to create an empty file - There's no easy way to cut a file/folder (Cmd-x doesn't work) - There's no (?) way to keep everything consistently sorted and aligned - ~~Tags are useless and just take up space…

>- There's no way to create an empty file

Create it for what? To use to launch the app that handles it? Just open the respective app and save an empty or unedited file.

>- There's no easy way to cut a file/folder (Cmd-x doesn't work)

Copy as regularly (Cmd-C), and use Option-Cmd-V to move the file where you want to.

>- There's no (?) way to keep everything consistently sorted and aligned

Not sure what you mean.

>- Tags are useless and just take up space for nothing

They're useful if you use them. Many people do use them. What exactly would you do with that "space" anyway? It's not like they take space in your apartment. It's a UI element which you can use or not use.

>- No "parent folder"...

Cmd+up arrow or Go -> Enclosing Folder.

Looks like all of the complains are basically "they're not where they was on Windows".

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#257

Post by tomp »

turkeywelder wrote: post #203

Recent M1 user here - I had a PowerPC mac back in the Leopard/Tiger days. I thought OSx would have come on leaps and bounds since then. It's....more or less unchanged. As well as this crazy installer thing, there's quite a bit about Macs that just seems off.. My list of "things that don't seem right" as a long term Windows/ChromeOS user - Window snapping isn't built in outside of fullscreen mode (seriously?!) - Sleep…

> - Pressing enter renames a file rather than opens it. What?

Press space instead... mostly will "open" the file (preview it).

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#258

Post by Kwpolska »

allenu wrote: post #249
jbverschoor wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s only by convention. Both OSes have an application with 0-x windows. macOS is just more transparent

How do Windows app with zero windows work? The reason it’s doable on macOS is because the menu bar is always there.

They live in the tray, aka notification area.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#259

Post by yesenadam »

LocalPCGuy wrote: post #251
yesenadam wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it makes total sense in one way - ENTER toggles name editing. After you change a file name, you press ENTER to 'save' the new name and finish editing. That seems logical, I think. So why not have the same key to start editing the name too? In the way PLAY/STOP are usually the same button etc.

Because, as was mentioned, in every other context/OS, that is not what Enter does?

My question was rhetorical. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#260

Post by Yaina »

geraneum wrote: post #84

If a certain way of doing things which I am very much used to does not apply to a different environment, it does not mean the subject is not intuitive whether it's macOS, Windows, etc. To me, intuitiveness means how easy it is to operate the system correctly without prior training. Honestly, for a non-tech savvy, macOS and Windows both have many quirks and don't let me start with Linux distros (Fedora is my daily dri…

Yeah, a lot of comments I see here essentially make 2021-comparisons to other operating systems.

Being used to things on other systems get conflated with how intuitive it is.

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