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How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

jeremyaboyd.com

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Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#201

Post by FabHK »

Tabular-Iceberg wrote: post #146

I’m a lifelong Mac user who always thought of it as intuitive, so I suggested a relative get one, thinking I would get fewer support calls, and when I do actually know the answer. And of course not have to deal with bloatware. I couldn’t have been more wrong. That superior trackpad with foolproof palm rejection? Useless. She was inadvertently triggering weird gestures all the time. But it behaved normally when I trie…

As with any OS, you can adjust the trackpad settings though, and eg require a click instead of a tap, for example, and disable most of the "advanced" gestures.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#202

Post by fatnoah »

handrous wrote: post #132
TulliusCicero wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, by default Finder seems to hide directory structure from you. This seems to be Apple thinking it'll confuse people if they can see 'up' directories, but I think just as often it confuses people like me who are trying and failing to go up. I use all three major desktop OSes regularly now, and overall Windows just feels like the most user-friendly and straightforward, though of course it too has issues (e.g. vari…

The filesystem is super confusing to tons of users. The reason people put crap all over their desktops is because they "lose" it if they put it anywhere else, while the desktop always stays "where it is". I don't think anyone's come up with a good solution to that problem, yet (Apple's isn't very good, and Windows' similar moves with its defaults aren't any better) and we're far enough into computers being common tha…

For whatever reason, I have a really hard time with the Mac filesystem and have resorted to either command line or files in docs or downloads.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#203

Post by turkeywelder »

Recent M1 user here - I had a PowerPC mac back in the Leopard/Tiger days. I thought OSx would have come on leaps and bounds since then.

It's....more or less unchanged. As well as this crazy installer thing, there's quite a bit about Macs that just seems off.. My list of "things that don't seem right" as a long term Windows/ChromeOS user

- Window snapping isn't built in outside of fullscreen mode (seriously?!)

- Sleeping the mac does not sleep the mac, it wakes up at all sorts of times

- Every time the OS updates, I have to go through a setup process again, trying to upsell me on iCloud drive. Nothing updates as nicely as ChromeOS but I'd hope for at least a reboot and back to where I left off

- TouchID for login works....but not often enough - it constantly pesters me for a password

- Pressing enter renames a file rather than opens it. What?

- The Finder is either named ironically or I'm not getting it - file paths are obscured, seeing file details is hidden behind a dialog.

We bought the M1 because ChromeOS didn't like our old Samsung printer and the VPN software my partner uses and Google had killed the update life for it for...reasons. In an expensive lesson of "whoops", the Mac doesn't like the printer either.

A lot of this is me getting back into it and getting used to things, but I sort of miss ChromeOS.

In Apple's defence, the hardware is amazing and the bluetooth is fantastic. Could have put a port on either side to make charging nicer though.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#204

Post by geraltofrivia »

rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

Amongst other gripes people have mentioned (and I agree with), here's another:

cut. There does not seem to be a way to cut and paste a file/folder. The best I could figure out is to drag the icons, hold down the finger, and move the cursor to the desired folder on the sidebar (or another window) and release the finger. This is either extremely difficult to pull of, or I am less dexterous than I think I am.

Why not have cut as an option in the drop down menu? I really can't figure this one out. What UX mantra suggests this.

Also, dragging files around is also a difficult feat to overcome. You either press down too hard (end up opening all selected files in their target applications -- RIP ram, let's restart the computer), or too gently and nothing happens.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#205

Post by throwaddzuzxd »

rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

The Finder is atrocious. It's the worst default macOS app and probably the worst program period I've ever used. It's been so dumbed down that it's basically unusable for anyone slightly experienced.

- There's no way to create an empty file

- There's no easy way to cut a file/folder (Cmd-x doesn't work)

- There's no (?) way to keep everything consistently sorted and aligned

- ~~Tags are useless and just take up space for nothing~~ This one is entirely subjective. I retract it.

- No "parent folder"...

There's some great features in Finder but it sucks at so many things it's just frustrating to use. Windows Explorer is infinitely better. It has less cool features (no tabs for instance) but is so much better to actually use.

I get that some features are hidden to avoid confusing non savvy users, but preventing experimented users to do basic stuff is criminal.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#206

Post by Isthatablackgsd »

speeder wrote: post #161

I concluded Mac interface designers are out of touch with reality when I found out that to "eject" pendrives you had to drag them to the trash bin. I mean, now they do show a convenient "eject" symbol next to the name of the remove-able drive on the Finder, but the "drag to trash" thing still work, and it always surprises people, they always assume it means you want to delete all files in a disk, not that you want to…

Or you could use ⌘+E to eject it.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#207

Post by meowface »

FabHK wrote: post #136
TulliusCicero wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, by default Finder seems to hide directory structure from you. This seems to be Apple thinking it'll confuse people if they can see 'up' directories, but I think just as often it confuses people like me who are trying and failing to go up. I use all three major desktop OSes regularly now, and overall Windows just feels like the most user-friendly and straightforward, though of course it too has issues (e.g. vari…

> trying and failing to go up Cmd-click on the folder in the Finder window title, and go up as far as you want?

This is the way. However, I only found out about this after years of using Macs, I think by randomly happening to notice that functionality one day.

It's not obvious in the slightest. No affordance indication, no tooltip, no flashing indicator or walkthrough demonstration when you get a new Mac, nothing happens if you hover over it or click it, no real reason to think there'd be extra functionality in an unadorned window title, etc.

I like the hardware and I like the advantages of a *nix OS for dev stuff (compared to Windows - at least pre-WSL), but the only thing MacOS has going for it is looking graphically decent and having decent performance (as far as I can tell). The actual UX is quite odd and arcane in many ways. Definitely not intuitive.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#208

Post by bsanr2 »

speeder wrote: post #161

I concluded Mac interface designers are out of touch with reality when I found out that to "eject" pendrives you had to drag them to the trash bin. I mean, now they do show a convenient "eject" symbol next to the name of the remove-able drive on the Finder, but the "drag to trash" thing still work, and it always surprises people, they always assume it means you want to delete all files in a disk, not that you want to…

It IS a good way to ingrain a behavior that, when used on a Windows system, will bias the user forever.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#209

Post by coldtea »

>they ARE NOT that intuitive unless you live on the App Store, or only consume the Apple-made software which might be fine for 70% of the population, but the moment one ventures outside of the walled garden, one might get lost.

Well, condidering the different ways to do the same thing in Windows and Linux, it's still quite easy.

But admittedly it could be easier.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#210

Post by FabHK »

dfxm12 wrote: post #63

I feel like describing the application installation process is being obtuse. The installation process can basically be distilled to copying the app to your local desktop. Counting closing windows among the steps? How will anyone figure that one out?! Even if you can't, it's easy to understand and remember after you do it once . Anyway, going back many, many years, I feel like there was a time where if you gave a mac…

I agree, though have to add that it adds stumbling blocks to people that don't come with the implicit knowledge (that was a matter of course when everything worked with floppy disks). I have seen people start the application directly from the disk image always, and accumulating mounted disk images that they don't unmount/delete.
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