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New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

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Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#261

Post by ForHackernews »

msg3 wrote: post #204
ForHackernews wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you don't have a right to a job. In non-America places (or in the few remaining unionised workplaces in America) you typically have some right to due process, and you can't just be terminated on a whim because you said something the boss didn't like.

Yes, and I think that's a good thing. But I don't see think that's incompatible with my view here - that freedom of speech doesn't mean I have the right to say anything and expect to keep my job. If I was to say something offensive, I should be accorded due process, but the result of that process may be that I'm let go.

Sure, I probably largely agree with that. But there's a difference between what you're describing and what often happens in the real world where a twitter mob calls for you to be fired and your company immediately shitcans you to placate the yobs.

e.g. https://arstechnica.com/staff/2013/03/donglegate-is-classic-...

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#262

Post by M2Ys4U »

concordDance wrote: post #194
iso1210 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you point to some research on this, specifically ones that account for the jobs where this happens (HN readers are likely in jobs that attract more middle class and higher education people, who are overwhelmingly left of the current UK median - go to a taxi driver mess room and compare conversations) and provide examples of the overton window shifting (yes, the rise of farage and ukip shifted it significantly i…

The overton window has shifted to the left on many issues. E.g. trans rights In my own workplace the overton window shifted notably left in gender issues in the last decade. You make a good point about hn people not being representative though.

>The overton window has shifted to the left on many issues. E.g. trans rights > >In my own workplace the overton window shifted notably left in gender issues in the last decade.

These are not shifts to the left, they are a shifts towards liberalism.

The left still has a big problem with gender identity. Take a look at Rosie Duffield and Jess Phillips in the Labour Party, Joanne Cherry in the SNP, and the issues surrounding the formation of the Alba Party.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#263

Post by twic »

yerwhat01010 wrote: post #259
yerwhat01010 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even correcting people who are clearly misinformed on clear matters of fact can cause offense. This is so true. I've seen polling showing that large numbers of people believe that the number of unarmed black men fatally shot by American police every year is in the "thousands" or even "tens of thousands". And the further to the left the media people consume, the higher they're likely to believe the number is. The ac…

(Someone commented that it's "insane" to say that you should be able to shoot someone if they attack you with their fists and I typed out a long reply, but they had deleted their comment before I could post it, so I'm going to post my reply here so I don't feel like I wasted my efforts) Yes, it absolutely is a valid reason to shoot someone, and anyone with training in firearms or self-defense would agree. You're not…

This reflects a peculiarly American perspective. This is now how the police operate in other countries. It is now how they should operate in the US.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#264

Post by the-smug-one »

mustafa_pasi wrote: post #157

Progressivism is the new Christianity, taking over the pagan landscape. It used to be that politics (in the UK) was class based. You are this or that based on your background. Two people from different classes would understand why the other did not support the same political party. That was how it was, and nobody felt the other should not exist. Everyone felt the other had a place in society. These progressive ideolo…

>Everyone felt the other had a place in society

I'm sure that in the depth of their hearts the coal miners not only understood but also accepted Thatcher as a fundamental and important part of society.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#265

Post by KaiserPro »

Thorentis wrote: post #70
olivermarks wrote: post #10

'For two-thirds of the population, talking politics sincerely, on the job, is uncomfortable. People who hold certain, commonplace views, stay silent believing that expressing those views will carry penalty not reward. ' This sounds like a recipe for disaster for any company. When I worked in the UK no part of my job description was about 'talking politics sincerely' or sharing my 'commonplace views'. I did that in th…

People with, shall we say, radically progressive views, are more than comfortable to share them openly in the staff rooms, kitchens, before and after meetings, etc. without anybody contending with them. Anybody with more centrist, or God forbid conservative views, saves them for the pub afterwards or for their private gatherings. The Overton window seems to shift weekly.

I' not sure where you have worked, but the people who freely give their political opinions are grouped accordingly. They are not grouped by left/right, but by how annoying they are.

All are avoided if at all possible.

I have worked with people who's politics I greatly and deeply oppose. I liked them personally and never delved to deep into their political lives. However, where we have strayed I have tried to learn from their view point.

After all, if we cannot understand one another, how are we supposed to forge middle ground?

I think we really should start to teach _how_ to talk about things we disagree on. It appears that people think that re-iterating the same points (the ones that the "other" side find so extreme) at volume will change people's minds.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#266

Post by luckylion »

dTal wrote: post #236
jb775 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how willingly other people bring up politically sensitive issues in the workplace I'd say I'm a mix of conservative/Libertarian and this kind of blows my mind over the past few years. It seems like I constantly hear people on the left openly voicing their political opinions around crowds of people, and always speak in a way that they genuinely believe everyone around them agrees....and often have a condescending wa…

I think you over-dignify yourself as the "sane" side. You believe you can perceive all the flaws in your opponents reasoning, they're obvious to you - but reject the possibility that they feel exactly the same way about you. The humility you expect from them - you aren't displaying it yourself. The situation has far more symmetry than you assert. The things you describe as political policies - they aren't. "Universal…

> You believe you can perceive all the flaws in your opponents reasoning, they're obvious to you - but reject the possibility that they feel exactly the same way about you.

I'm not sure about that. I believe that (calm, observant, not the Yelling-at-you-on-Facebook kind) conservatives today better understand liberals and progressives than the other way round, because the liberal/progressive point of view is overwhelmingly represented in the media, so conservatives are much more exposed to it than any random liberal would be to conservative ideas (unless they specifically seek them out).

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#268

Post by Clewza313 »

evgen wrote: post #226
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the assumption that 'viewpoint diversity' is either valuable or worth cultivating on all subjects, this is not true. Ah yes. It shouldn’t even be legal for people to question your viewpoint. Because when has discussion ever been a valuable thing? Or when has a political fashion ever turned out to be sorely wrong, and new viewpoints were needed? Wait, I remember a few times - but I’m sure that this time is going to…

> Ah yes. It shouldn’t even be legal for people to question your viewpoint. Because when has discussion ever been a valuable thing? Sometimes discussion serves no value. I will not bother to discuss racial theories with a member of the Proud Boys or KKK because the discussion is a waste of time. No one has made any claim regarding legality here, so you are free to question any viewpoint and should be prepared to face…

Do you not see the irony in labeling people who politely disagree with you "members of the KKK"? Or are you just trolling?

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#269

Post by notsureaboutpg »

klyrs wrote: post #41
notsureaboutpg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But many conservative viewpoints are not hostile to identities. If I don't agree with Affirmative Action, am I hostile to someone's identity? A majority of Californians at the ballot box will disagree with AA but none of them will say it out loud at the workplace. It's the misconception that identities are "opposed" by certain viewpoints that leads to this.

Many conservative viewpoints are perfectly acceptable to share in the workplace. Down with taxes, small government, privatize and monetize, down with regulations, etc. Well. Except there's some lines. If you work in the oil industry and you complain about regulation of food products, fine. But if you complain about environmental regulations that pertain to your business and an inspector happens to overhear, then your…

Fine, but some which should be acceptable aren't and I'm talking about ones unrelated to one's business.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#270

Post by lazyasciiart »

feverfew wrote: post #219
lazyasciiart wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No?

Second chance :P > being completely taboo it was never discussed > speaking one's mind in public nowadays is fraught with dangers.

There is a tremendous difference between "never discussed" and "not brought up in public". Examples of topics that are discussed but not brought up in public are your child's struggle with potty training, whether you will provide them with birth control, whether anal sex is safe, when you and your partner like to have sex, when you intend to conceive, that weird discharge that sometimes comes out your nose, and what you will leave in your will.
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