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New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

ethicalsystems.org

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Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#131

Post by natchy »

samsari wrote: post #114
arka2147483647 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In princible, the progressive left supports free speach. In practice, disagreement is met with explanations and accusations of ”shifting overton window”, ”new normal” and ”normalization”. Meaning that, Yes, you do have the right of free speach, but No, you should not be saying the wrong things.

Just because I support your right to say it doesn't mean I have to celebrate what you say, or why you said it.

From the article:

> We asked whether it is “fair or unfair for people who say grossly offensive things to be at risk of losing their livelihoods?” Nationally, 48 percent believe it is “fair,” but this figure rises to 65 percent for social democrat-aligned Labour voters, compared with 39 percent for right-leaning Conservative voters.

Meaning right leaning are more likely to live and let live.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#132

Post by jim-jim-jim »

insert_coin wrote: post #120
jim-jim-jim wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are many other places to work, many that share those views. We might be talking past each other. I don't think there is a private sector entity that empowers workers or opposes the military industrial complex, because these stances are inherently opposed to most firms' profit motives. Despite the way the issue has been framed, companies aren't being stormed by left-wing radicals. The "progressive activism" de…

How can we be talking past each other when you got exactly what I said? You just disagree with me that non profits exists, that cooperatives exists, that employee owned businesses exist, that communions and communities where profit is not a word in their lexicon exist. But they exists. And not only that, the number of self employed people that share all or some of those values grows every year. And if all that isn’t…

We might've been talking past each other when you said

> Sadly for some their only purpose at work is to cause division

Your implication is that disruption is taking place over issues of workers' rights or anti-imperialism. It isn't for the most part. Those matters pit the company against its workers.

The brand of hostility covered in the article is worker-on-worker, and often occurs with the implicit blessing of the company itself.

My only intent was to draw a distinction, since the latter situation was disingenuously dubbed "progressive activism."

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#133

Post by MisterBastahrd »

guythedudebro wrote: post #45
jeffbee wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason I always look skeptically on other research about "polarization". The trend tends to be that in the past it was common for otherwise-sane people to advocate crazy stuff like bans on interracial marriage. Now the only people who are against interracial marriage are straight-ticket crazy people, and this sorting of society is superficially "polarization" but I can't find the negative in it, because…

Replace interracial marriage with something like abolish the police. Is the ethical/sane choice still clear cut?

Abolish the police? No.

Abolish the police as they currently exist? Absolutely.

Nobody deserves to die because they were shot by a cop because they missed a payment on a fine.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#135

Post by read_if_gay_ »

evgen wrote: post #116
Clewza313 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pitch perfect example of polarization: the previous poster said "there’s too much virtue signaling at work", and now you're strongly implying that anybody who feels this way is a "racist".

The response may have to do with the phrase 'virtue signaling', which is one commonly used by fragile white boys to indicate that someone who objects to certain behavior or will no longer tolerate a certain activity is only doing so because they are seeking approval for this public demonstration and that the belief is not sincerely held. The other alternative is that the person objecting actually believes the behavio…

> the assumption that 'viewpoint diversity' is either valuable or worth cultivating on all subjects, this is not true.

Ah yes. It shouldn’t even be legal for people to question your viewpoint. Because when has discussion ever been a valuable thing? Or when has a political fashion ever turned out to be sorely wrong, and new viewpoints were needed? Wait, I remember a few times - but I’m sure that this time is going to be different.

Also, “fragile white boys”? This kind of ad hominem makes you sound like a raging ideologue.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#136

Post by throwawayboise »

dx034 wrote: post #108
Thorentis wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with, shall we say, radically progressive views, are more than comfortable to share them openly in the staff rooms, kitchens, before and after meetings, etc. without anybody contending with them. Anybody with more centrist, or God forbid conservative views, saves them for the pub afterwards or for their private gatherings. The Overton window seems to shift weekly.

That's the case if the majority of people hold progressive views. I've encountered enough conservative companies where people had no problem sharing openly conservative views (some to an extreme that led to open racism). In those companies, no one would've dared voicing progressive views. Doing that was the easiest way to become an outsider.

I think racism is orthogonal to political affiliation. The (thankfully few) most virulently racist people I know, i.e. white people who drop the "N" word in casual conversation, are straight-ticket "D" voters. I also know people who are fiscally and socially conservative but not racist in the slightest.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#137

Post by samvher »

I might be one of these progressive activists, and this is interesting to read and reflect on. I am quite vocal about culture, hiring, compensation etc, though I would definitely not say that I feel "confident being vocal" - it actually feels very exposed and quite vulnerable (in part because others don't necessarily share their own views). The reason I'm still vocal about it is that I care, I would feel much more satisfied if I can look back on my working life and feel like I was able to introduce structural improvements than if all I see is that I did what I was told and grew my bank account.

I am very worried about inequality and climate change causing massive issues down the road and the current system does not seem sufficiently equipped to address this - the "short term productivity" signal seems unlikely to lead to a solution by itself. So I guess fear plays a role as well.

What I would definitely not want is a mono-culture where everyone thinks like me, or large scale central planning, or anything of that kind. But I am desperate to find a feasible gradual path from where we are now to something more sustainable - if we don't find something gradual, I'm afraid change will be sudden and uncontrollable.

I know there is a lot of frustration about cancel culture, political correctness, virtue signaling, social justice warriors, etc. I think the issue here is mainly one of polarization and lack of effective discourse - it's easier to call people names than engage thoughtfully (which goes both ways). I hope we will find a way to get better at this collectively.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#140

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

ramphastidae wrote: post #59
kiawe_fire wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the paradoxical struggle I've had, from day one, at the startup for which I work. I was praised for being "fresh eyes" and having "creative ideas", only to be reminded "how we do things here" after producing something that I thought would be a progressive way of addressing the company's challenges. I continue to try new directions, and every once in a while something sticks, but often times I just have to be…

This is normal. If you are an IC or middle manager you are there to execute (do what your boss says). Defining process and culture is not your job. Whether your process is better or not is besides the point. Fighting this will only lead to political pain.

This is such a depressing, but accurate, comment. Thanks!
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