Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

thedrive.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 326 posts

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#141

Post by redflame7 »

throwaway56034 wrote: post #123
rich_sasha wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia is not USSR - a superpower with half of Europe under its wings -, and is not a threat to anyone Not by choice, Russians still think the collapse of USSR a tragic mistake, and Putin’s rhetoric ties directly back to it. Russian “defence” spending is skyrocketing, Russia is holding frequent manoeuvres righ in NATO borders, keeps flying bombers ever-so-slightly into NATO country airspace’s... and most of all, Ru…

Russian “defence” spending is skyrocketing, This is wrong, it barely keeps up with inflation: https://www.sipri.org/commentary/topical-backgrounder/2020/r... This is a whopping 9% of the yearly defense spending of the US.

Yea The US's GDP is roughly 13 times that of Russia. It's not even close to the way it was during the Cold War.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#142

Post by lenkite »

hestefisk wrote: post #61

I’m a Danish citizen. The story doesn’t really surprise me (given the news a few years back that US spy on EU MPs in Brussels by eavesdropping Belgian telcos). The worst part is the complete apathy from Danish politicians to stand up against this kind of spying and take action. It’s completely unacceptable and should be prosecuted; yet none of the centrist parties are interested in or motivated by standing up against…

Please let the EU develop its own standing military force independent of NATO and US. It's truly about time this happened. We need a third counterpart to China and the USA.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#143

Post by ReptileMan »

grey-area wrote: post #60
ARandomerDude wrote: post #26

Would we expect them not to? "An important developed nation is picking a new fighter. Let's know nothing until it's over with." is hardly good stewardship of your own nation's trust and resources. It's the NSA's job to monitor who is friends with whom so policy makers can make policy. That's not to say the NSA should do anything they can. But it is their proper job to spy on non-Americans for America.

Nations should spy on enemies, not friends, lest they find themselves without friends. Also spies should not be used for the benefit of corporations (in this case arms dealers) under cover of ‘national security’.

One should keep his friends close, his enemies even closer ...

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#144

Post by _lbaq »

cturner wrote: post #138
_lbaq wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Meanwhile, Russia, a developing nation with a history of muscular military engagements in the region, is spending more than six percent of its much larger GDB on military. The Russia GDP is less than 10% of the GDP of EU, or the same size as the Benelux (Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg) countries. Its population is shrinking rapidly due to low birth rates and very high death rates. Its ruled by a totalitaria…

Loosely I agree with commenters remarking that the Cold War is over. (Though not the disrespect for the Russian capability. That is a country that still knows how to fight a war.) But if not for Russia, why does Europe need a military? To get strategic independence from the US? In that case, where is the money? Why the howling about Trump wanting to reduce the US contribution? And how is the command going to work? Th…

>why does Europe need a military?

Why does the US need a military? Canada? Mexico?

Its a global world, EU as one of the biggest blocks needs its own military for many reasons. Its time to cut the reliance of the US, but remain very close allies.

If defense spending is done right, purchased locally by local companies, a lot of the money circles back into the economy.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#145

Post by ReptileMan »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #74
grey-area wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nations should spy on enemies, not friends, lest they find themselves without friends. Also spies should not be used for the benefit of corporations (in this case arms dealers) under cover of ‘national security’.

> Nations should spy on enemies, not friends, lest they find themselves without friends. Nations should spy on friends as well, lest they find out too late that who those whom they thought were their friends were actually working with their enemies against them.

Trust but verify.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#146

Post by iguy »

ignasl wrote: post #124
jmnicolas wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia is too threatening to upset your security guarantor. Come on stop spreading this dumb western propaganda, Russia isn't threatening anybody in western Europe. They took Crimea back and sabotaged Ukraine because strategically they can't afford to have yet another NATO country right at their doorstep. They're not going to invade Poland any time soon (what for anyway?). They're not crazy nor blood thirsty. This…

They won't invade Poland or Baltics because those countries are in NATO and EU and it's way too risky. Russia seems pretty involved in all the hotspots lately including starting a war in Ukraine. Very likely same fate would be for Poland and Baltics if they didn't protect themselves with stronger allies. And even if current Russia is not interested/capable to cause trouble to east EU - that doesn't mean it won't chan…

I guess a big factor must be to ask what they would gain. Domestic PR / distraction is one thing, but Crimea also has warm-water ports, and a (largely?) ethnic Russian population.

Eastern Poland has... some farmland, some ancient forests? People with a 5-generation deep tradition of suicidal attempts to kick the Russians out? Whereas the Baltics are sandwiched with Kalinngrad, and some have fair-sized Russian populations, who can be painted as oppressed. That seems much more concerning.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#147

Post by iguy »

cturner wrote: post #138
_lbaq wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Meanwhile, Russia, a developing nation with a history of muscular military engagements in the region, is spending more than six percent of its much larger GDB on military. The Russia GDP is less than 10% of the GDP of EU, or the same size as the Benelux (Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg) countries. Its population is shrinking rapidly due to low birth rates and very high death rates. Its ruled by a totalitaria…

Loosely I agree with commenters remarking that the Cold War is over. (Though not the disrespect for the Russian capability. That is a country that still knows how to fight a war.) But if not for Russia, why does Europe need a military? To get strategic independence from the US? In that case, where is the money? Why the howling about Trump wanting to reduce the US contribution? And how is the command going to work? Th…

> But if not for Russia, why does Europe need a military?

I guess Turkey is the obvious other candidate. Not so many nukes, of course, but invaded a now EU member in 1974. Plays games with the edges of Greek airspace every week or so? Officially still in NATO but who knows what that means.

> I think Merkel is insincere, and playing to a domestic audience.

Yes.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#148

Post by avar »

_RPL5_ wrote: post #117
thefounder wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> motivated by standing up against the US and their illegal activities. They know they can't do much to stand up against US. I may be wrong but I think Denmark's security is based on US millitary support through NATO. This applies to most EU countries. Russia is too threatening to upset your security guarantor. Here you have it, it's no secret: Denmark opposes the creation of a "European army" to defend the E.U. fro…

Your argument is that EU countries will not stand up to the US, because they are afraid of losing American protection. However, in case of Germany you linked evidence that goes directly against your argument: >German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Tuesday called for creating a European Union army, stressing that Europeans can no longer merely rely on the U.S. for their security. Given the context of the thread, this quo…

How is the argument that EU countries won't stand up to the US refuted by the desire of some politicians in the EU to create an EU army.

As long as that army doesn't exist those EU countries still rely heavily on the US for security, and therefore the dynamic the GP is proposing might exist today.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#149

Post by [deleted] »

ignasl wrote: post #124
jmnicolas wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia is too threatening to upset your security guarantor. Come on stop spreading this dumb western propaganda, Russia isn't threatening anybody in western Europe. They took Crimea back and sabotaged Ukraine because strategically they can't afford to have yet another NATO country right at their doorstep. They're not going to invade Poland any time soon (what for anyway?). They're not crazy nor blood thirsty. This…

They won't invade Poland or Baltics because those countries are in NATO and EU and it's way too risky. Russia seems pretty involved in all the hotspots lately including starting a war in Ukraine. Very likely same fate would be for Poland and Baltics if they didn't protect themselves with stronger allies. And even if current Russia is not interested/capable to cause trouble to east EU - that doesn't mean it won't chan…

[deleted]

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#150

Post by jonathanstrange »

elmo2you wrote: post #139
thefounder wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Russia already anexed Crimea and is fighting a proxy war in Ukraine. You may not find Ukraine enough European for you to count. Next: other Eastern European countries. Next: the baltic countries.

> Well Russia already annexed Crimea .. Yet another show of either (willful) ignorance or (intentional) peddling of (Western) propaganda. People may think whatever they want about what happened to Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, but to called that an annexation (or an invasion, as many have) is disingenuous as best. It's no secret (in fact, it's on public record) that it was the USA who pumped copious amounts of money in…

It was an invasion and annexation according to international law. That is crystal clear and there is not even any leeway for interpretation about it. On a side note, the kind of justifications / rationalization you give for the annexation - somebody installed politicians there that were not pleasing Russia enough - are not only factually incorrect, too, they are also irrelevant to the question whether the Crimea was annexed by Russia or not.

I don't know where you think the "green men" militia came from, but I know for certain that they were Russian military (and no, not on vacation). And let's not forget that a Buk system was provided directly from Russia that then downed Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, killing all 283 crew and passengers. Dutch authorities and international investigators have uncovered and documented every single minute of this crime, from the arrival of the BUK system to its hasty departure afterwards, and identified the Russian officers involved in it by name and picture.

These are the facts.

Post reply on HN