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NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

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Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#81

Post by chmod775 »

gojomo wrote: post #75

Note that France – one of governments with commercial interests in the Airbus/Eurofighter consortium – doesn't have clean hands when it comes to spying on behalf of its domestic firms: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/france-spied-on-com... While perversion of national-security spying for generic & narrow commercial gain is concerning, arms deals are a hybrid case. To the extent a case involves government-on-…

When both allies were spying on each other, then sure, you can go "hehe look at us sillies xD".

But when it's just one party doing the spying, it violates trust, not builds it, as the US has learned.

It's hard to measure how much the Snowden revelations have contributed to the distancing of US allies, since there was also someone else who contributed greatly to the ongoing political isolation of the US, but it certainly didn't help build trust.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#82

Post by ARandomerDude »

blackrock wrote: post #70
ARandomerDude wrote: post #26

Would we expect them not to? "An important developed nation is picking a new fighter. Let's know nothing until it's over with." is hardly good stewardship of your own nation's trust and resources. It's the NSA's job to monitor who is friends with whom so policy makers can make policy. That's not to say the NSA should do anything they can. But it is their proper job to spy on non-Americans for America.

So what you are saying, is that spying is ok. Got it. So you don’t mind if other countries spy on America, right?

It depends on what you mean by "you don't mind."

I don't hope foreign intelligence services succeed. I hope our people and systems are better than theirs. But I do expect them to do it. It would be wrong for them not to do everything they can to secure their nations too.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#83

Post by laydn »

skwb wrote: post #71
ARandomerDude wrote: post #26

Would we expect them not to? "An important developed nation is picking a new fighter. Let's know nothing until it's over with." is hardly good stewardship of your own nation's trust and resources. It's the NSA's job to monitor who is friends with whom so policy makers can make policy. That's not to say the NSA should do anything they can. But it is their proper job to spy on non-Americans for America.

I tend to agree with this sentiment. Lets take the Turkey case for example. For all intents and purposes, they are a close NATO ally since the Cold War. They were part of the F-35 program, where the specific electronic and radar profile are paramount to the tactical advantage of the weapon system. But Turkey decided they wanted to buy into the Russian S400 antiair system as well (given that their alternatives like Pa…

You do know that, there are F-35's already flying around S400 systems, right? I mean Syria is just one example.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#84

Post by sbierwagen »

Aperocky wrote: post #41
cm2187 wrote: post #40

Wait. Defence contractors and dept of defence officials discuss national security issues over unencrypted channels in 2015?

It's Denmark, their defense department doesn't really make sense. It's literally an expense they don't need.

For context, Denmark has a population of 5.8 million. It’s as if Wisconsin had an air force.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#85

Post by mkroman »

hestefisk wrote: post #61

I’m a Danish citizen. The story doesn’t really surprise me (given the news a few years back that US spy on EU MPs in Brussels by eavesdropping Belgian telcos). The worst part is the complete apathy from Danish politicians to stand up against this kind of spying and take action. It’s completely unacceptable and should be prosecuted; yet none of the centrist parties are interested in or motivated by standing up against…

Don't forget the constant illegal logging that the government imposes on the ISPs[1], which for some reason, they comply to.

[1]: https://ulovliglogning.dk/en/

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#86

Post by fulafel »

bigbubba wrote: post #68
fulafel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article lays out the expectations (and law) of the Danes re hosting the NSA espionage center and ground rules about its non-use against Danish interests, which sound pretty modest.

For the Danes to trust spies requires willful naïveté, no? I wouldn't be surprised to hear key Danish politicians got bribed or blackmailed into being so credulous in the first place.

Diplomacy and military alliances are complicated. When you catch another country breaking their promises you make a fuss (sometimes public, sometimes not), doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether you were are aware of the possibility before.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#87

Post by skwb »

laydn wrote: post #83
skwb wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree with this sentiment. Lets take the Turkey case for example. For all intents and purposes, they are a close NATO ally since the Cold War. They were part of the F-35 program, where the specific electronic and radar profile are paramount to the tactical advantage of the weapon system. But Turkey decided they wanted to buy into the Russian S400 antiair system as well (given that their alternatives like Pa…

You do know that, there are F-35's already flying around S400 systems, right? I mean Syria is just one example.

There's a world of difference between "occasional incidental radar profiling of F-35 from the OpFor perspective" and "Consistent friendly profiling of F-35 as they land at Incirlik air base".

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#88

Post by thefounder »

hestefisk wrote: post #61

I’m a Danish citizen. The story doesn’t really surprise me (given the news a few years back that US spy on EU MPs in Brussels by eavesdropping Belgian telcos). The worst part is the complete apathy from Danish politicians to stand up against this kind of spying and take action. It’s completely unacceptable and should be prosecuted; yet none of the centrist parties are interested in or motivated by standing up against…

>> motivated by standing up against the US and their illegal activities.

They know they can't do much to stand up against US. I may be wrong but I think Denmark's security is based on US millitary support through NATO. This applies to most EU countries. Russia is too threatening to upset your security guarantor.

Here you have it, it's no secret:

Denmark opposes the creation of a "European army" to defend the E.U. from threats, Defense Minister Claus Hjort Frederiksen said Friday.

Speaking at the meeting of Denmark's 2019-2020 foreign and security policy, he said: "There is no such thing as Denmark will defend itself against the U.S. The U.S. is the cornerstone of our freedom."

German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Tuesday called for creating a European Union army, stressing that Europeans can no longer merely rely on the U.S. for their security.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#89

Post by throwaway4good »

hestefisk wrote: post #61

I’m a Danish citizen. The story doesn’t really surprise me (given the news a few years back that US spy on EU MPs in Brussels by eavesdropping Belgian telcos). The worst part is the complete apathy from Danish politicians to stand up against this kind of spying and take action. It’s completely unacceptable and should be prosecuted; yet none of the centrist parties are interested in or motivated by standing up against…

Yet we hapilly break the rules of self-governance to prevent Huawei from winning contracts on the Faeroe islands.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#90

Post by babesh »

blackrock wrote: post #70
ARandomerDude wrote: post #26

Would we expect them not to? "An important developed nation is picking a new fighter. Let's know nothing until it's over with." is hardly good stewardship of your own nation's trust and resources. It's the NSA's job to monitor who is friends with whom so policy makers can make policy. That's not to say the NSA should do anything they can. But it is their proper job to spy on non-Americans for America.

So what you are saying, is that spying is ok. Got it. So you don’t mind if other countries spy on America, right?

I think we should expect nations to manipulate other nation’s elections as well. The US has a long history of doing that yet is horrified when other nations do it to us.
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