I’m a Danish citizen. The story doesn’t really surprise me (given the news a few years back that US spy on EU MPs in Brussels by eavesdropping Belgian telcos). The worst part is the complete apathy from Danish politicians to stand up against this kind of spying and take action. It’s completely unacceptable and should be prosecuted; yet none of the centrist parties are interested in or motivated by standing up against the US and their illegal activities.
NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report
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Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
> behalf of Cisco Cisco is not part of the military industrial complex. Boeing or Lockheed Martin on the other hand, I'd be extremely surprised if our intelligence agencies didn't give them stolen tech.
> Boeing or Lockheed Martin on the other hand, I'd be extremely surprised if our intelligence agencies didn't give them stolen tech. Assuming we’re talking about military tech. Why should they? What tech is the military and defense industry lacking in that would provide a battlefield advantage that other countries have? There’s only a handful of non-US weapon systems that can potentially compete with US weapon system…
I think the scope of your consideration is a bit narrow. Lockheed Martin probably isn't very interested in stealing technology from Sukhoi to clone and put in their own jets. However it seems quite likely that Lockheed has an interest in the particulars of Sukhoi jets, their weapon systems, radars and EW systems, and airframe capabilities, so that Lockheed may better design systems meant to counter those systems. Certainly the design of effective stealth aircraft required knowledge of opposition radar systems.
As for the American military being top dog by a long mile... that seems true, but you don't stay that way by being complacent.
Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe. But evvvveryone spies on everyone, except those who cannot muster the resources to do so. It is entirely expected, by allies and enemies alike. Setting a moral example by Doing the Right Thing would be a ridiculously huge mistake. Geopolitics is not for nice people.
> Setting a moral example by Doing the Right Thing would be a ridiculously huge mistake It seems like we need moral people in leadership positions around world the at the top who don't care about game theory. Game theory is a curse that needs to be eliminated. Prisoner's dilemma does no one good. The biggest impediment to trust is non trustworthy people at top. Geopolitics IS for nice people, we just need to make sur…
> Prisoner's dilemma does no one good.
The problem is the prisoners didn't put themselves in prison – they find themselves there as a consequence of international politics and must play the game to the best of their abilities
Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report
#64News today: Spy agency spies.
Why though? Please tell me it wasn't something as petty as money.
It’s just about money. The entire dealing was unneeded and seemed driven primarily by the need of corrupt officials to get paid. Makes perfect sense that they spied on officials, likely some where made to fall in line using intelligence instead of bags of money and promises of extravagant consulting jobs later down the line.
Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report
#65Would we expect them not to? "An important developed nation is picking a new fighter. Let's know nothing until it's over with." is hardly good stewardship of your own nation's trust and resources. It's the NSA's job to monitor who is friends with whom so policy makers can make policy. That's not to say the NSA should do anything they can. But it is their proper job to spy on non-Americans for America.
The article lays out the expectations (and law) of the Danes re hosting the NSA espionage center and ground rules about its non-use against Danish interests, which sound pretty modest.
Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know about the US spying on Israel, but Israel and the UAE actively spy on the US, and this arrangement is pretty much allowed. I do know that US embassies in both places "monitor" their host countries, which is significantly different from spying and intercepting comms.
So NSA has an algorithm to not capture Israeli communications, or if it does automatically deletes anything with a "Cohen" surname? I don't think what you are saying is even technically possible ("we spy on everyone except this small country"). Everyone spies on everyone.
Okay, my bad. So the USA does intercept network traffic and communications with them but does not have HUMINT against them.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-emirates-spying-insig...
So the NSA monitors the UAE comms, but the CIA does not.
Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report
#67It's not often you read headlines about the NSA actually doing what they're meant to do. I'm glad to hear they still find time for real work, not just spying on everybody's dick pics.
Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report
#68Would we expect them not to? "An important developed nation is picking a new fighter. Let's know nothing until it's over with." is hardly good stewardship of your own nation's trust and resources. It's the NSA's job to monitor who is friends with whom so policy makers can make policy. That's not to say the NSA should do anything they can. But it is their proper job to spy on non-Americans for America.
The article lays out the expectations (and law) of the Danes re hosting the NSA espionage center and ground rules about its non-use against Danish interests, which sound pretty modest.
For the Danes to trust spies requires willful naïveté, no? I wouldn't be surprised to hear key Danish politicians got bribed or blackmailed into being so credulous in the first place.
Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know about the US spying on Israel, but Israel and the UAE actively spy on the US, and this arrangement is pretty much allowed. I do know that US embassies in both places "monitor" their host countries, which is significantly different from spying and intercepting comms.
Interesting that the US doesn't actively spy on its partners, at least in their home countries, yet they allow it to be done to them. I don't follow this stuff closely so I can't really contribute. I'm sure others here would like to hear more. I do remember when Israel's cell tower interceptors were found in D.C. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/israel-white-house...
It probably has something to do with Israel being very popular with wide swaths of the American public (particularly evangelical Christians), to such an extent that it's not terribly uncommon to hear American politicians praise Israel to garner more support from themselves.
Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report
#70Would we expect them not to? "An important developed nation is picking a new fighter. Let's know nothing until it's over with." is hardly good stewardship of your own nation's trust and resources. It's the NSA's job to monitor who is friends with whom so policy makers can make policy. That's not to say the NSA should do anything they can. But it is their proper job to spy on non-Americans for America.
So what you are saying, is that spying is ok.
Got it.
So you don’t mind if other countries spy on America, right?