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NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

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Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#31

Post by seppin »

fakedang wrote: post #27
seppin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US 100% spies on Israel, and Israel often has the most amount of foreign spies in DC/SF outside of China and Russia.

I don't know about the US spying on Israel, but Israel and the UAE actively spy on the US, and this arrangement is pretty much allowed. I do know that US embassies in both places "monitor" their host countries, which is significantly different from spying and intercepting comms.

So NSA has an algorithm to not capture Israeli communications, or if it does automatically deletes anything with a "Cohen" surname?

I don't think what you are saying is even technically possible ("we spy on everyone except this small country"). Everyone spies on everyone.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#32

Post by Dahoon »

cbozeman wrote: post #16
voodootrucker wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is thoroughly corrupt and immoral, mostly in the name of cold war morality. It's allies would be wise to reconsider who we truly are.

The world will have a master. The question is, who do you want the master to be? Your choices are America, China, or Russia. That's it. You may not like it, but you can't do anything about it, and denying it and raising a fuss about it is childish naivety, not at its finest, but at its absolute worst.

My wish-list: EU, PRC, USA, Russia - in that order. The US has had its chance.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#33

Post by thereare5lights »

seppin wrote: post #19
inquirerofsorts wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But evvvveryone spies on everyone The NSA has a budget bigger than entire countries economic output. Not everyone spies on everyone to the same extent. Not everyone breaks their own laws constantly to the same extent. Not everyone hides behind some bullshit moral argument to justify their actions to same extent. The rot is real. They now have more power than any elected official including the President and repeated…

> Not everyone spies on everyone to the same extent. Because they don't have the capacity. And NSA doesn't steal Huawei IP on behalf of Cisco, quite the opposite.

> behalf of Cisco

Cisco is not part of the military industrial complex.

Boeing or Lockheed Martin on the other hand, I'd be extremely surprised if our intelligence agencies didn't give them stolen tech.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#34

Post by BalinKing »

cambalache wrote: post #29
nyolfen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> spy that Japanese company to steal secrets for its American competitor. i don't see any indication that anything like that happened

I am so happy you are healthy after being 10 years in coma https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use...

It’s worth noting that the article only references a leaked memo for a potential plan for the future, rather than concretely describing current activities. Not to say you’re necessarily wrong, but that article isn’t the strongest evidence IMO.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#35

Post by elefanten »

cambalache wrote: post #29
nyolfen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> spy that Japanese company to steal secrets for its American competitor. i don't see any indication that anything like that happened

I am so happy you are healthy after being 10 years in coma https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use...

That article proves the opposite point, despite the intense message-warping attempted.

The report in question is a hypothetical "what if" scenario analysis (one of many) that outlines one possible strategy to address a future where US corporate innovation is not in the top tier. It's not real and it's speculative about the medium-to-long term future.

Despite falling over itself to try to imply the US might actually be guilty of trade secret theft for corporations... it fails to provide a single example.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#37

Post by mrslave »

fakedang wrote: post #27
seppin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US 100% spies on Israel, and Israel often has the most amount of foreign spies in DC/SF outside of China and Russia.

I don't know about the US spying on Israel, but Israel and the UAE actively spy on the US, and this arrangement is pretty much allowed. I do know that US embassies in both places "monitor" their host countries, which is significantly different from spying and intercepting comms.

Interesting that the US doesn't actively spy on its partners, at least in their home countries, yet they allow it to be done to them. I don't follow this stuff closely so I can't really contribute. I'm sure others here would like to hear more.

I do remember when Israel's cell tower interceptors were found in D.C.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/israel-white-house...

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#38

Post by disown »

cbozeman wrote: post #16
voodootrucker wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is thoroughly corrupt and immoral, mostly in the name of cold war morality. It's allies would be wise to reconsider who we truly are.

The world will have a master. The question is, who do you want the master to be? Your choices are America, China, or Russia. That's it. You may not like it, but you can't do anything about it, and denying it and raising a fuss about it is childish naivety, not at its finest, but at its absolute worst.

> Your choices are America, China, or Russia. That's it.

Don't sleep on the EU. They are largest economic/political entity in the world. Not america, not china, not russia. The EU represents the world's largest market, has a larger population than the US, larger defense budget than china, currency that could possibly replace the dollar one day and a legacy/network of former colonial possessions all over the world.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#39

Post by elefanten »

absolutelyrad wrote: post #7
quesera wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. But evvvveryone spies on everyone, except those who cannot muster the resources to do so. It is entirely expected, by allies and enemies alike. Setting a moral example by Doing the Right Thing would be a ridiculously huge mistake. Geopolitics is not for nice people.

> Setting a moral example by Doing the Right Thing would be a ridiculously huge mistake It seems like we need moral people in leadership positions around world the at the top who don't care about game theory. Game theory is a curse that needs to be eliminated. Prisoner's dilemma does no one good. The biggest impediment to trust is non trustworthy people at top. Geopolitics IS for nice people, we just need to make sur…

"we just need to make sure nice people are involved in geopolitics and make it to the top"

Those are the hard problems in your prescription.

-No easy way to test and identify (reliably and at scale) for trustworthiness.

-Not all nice/trustworthy people stay that way over time, especially for long periods of time and as their opportunities/environment/outlook change.

-Notions of trustworthiness vary across people and peoples.

-Positions/nodes of power attract people who want power -- trustworthy or not. Often not.

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