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Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

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Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#311

Post by grogenaut »

Kaze404 wrote: post #160
grogenaut wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be helpful if you chose to educate by linking to the definitions you are using instead of just chastising for someone not knowing the terminology you are using. The Wikipedia article for gender mentions that the terms sex and gender for biological gender/sex have flip flopped multiple times in the last 30 years. HN is supposed to be a place where people learn, not an anger pit like the rest of the web.

I agree, but you can't really assume good faith from the snarky comment I responded to.

Reading the GP again, it doesn't seem snarky. They are just stating what they believe the definition is.

It's very easy to read emotion into an emotionless format like text. Which means it's very easy to devolve the conversation to anger very quickly.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#312

Post by turing_complete »

alicemaz wrote: post #298
turing_complete wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any source on that? It sounds like it might be just anecdotal due to the fact that trans people tend to be more noticeable.

previous poster's claim is a common piece of folk wisdom that ultimately stems from this paper: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16298429/ 2005, n=187. the authors are blanchardites so the language they use is needlessly confusing, but they find 107.3 mean iq among the male-attracted trans women, 121.7 among the female-attracted interestingly while pulling this up I also found this one from 1967(!) https://nyaspubs.on…

Interesting, thanks!

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#313

Post by dang »

trianglem wrote: post #176
dang wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In HN's context, this and your other posts in the thread constitute flamebait—that is, inflammatory and unsubstantive. You're violating these two guidelines: " Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. " " Eschew flamebait. " If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules, we'd be grateful.

It’s a clear disagreement and not “bait”. But yes, I get it.

A comment can easily be both, and the flamebait is the high-order bit.

You just did it again, predictably starting a flamewar. Not cool.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#314

Post by dang »

encom wrote: post #243
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they have become what they want, they quite well look male/female so you don't have to remember anything. Indeed, you'd have to make an effort to get it wrong. If they are transitioning they're very forgiving of genuine mistakes. Your links don't support your position - did you read them yourself? "Good News: Law Penalizing “Misgendering” with Hefty Fine and/or Jail Time being Legally Challenged" (california) "M…

>Your links don't support your position My position is that it's stupid, and I was illustrating that there are forces that want to make it illegal. And they have succeeded in some places. The Canadian Bill C16 is one example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Act_to_amend_the_Canadian_H... >I don't think you actually know any TG people. And I think you have no basis for making that assumption. You are wrong.

Please don't perpetuate flamewars on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#315

Post by dang »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #255
encom wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Your links don't support your position My position is that it's stupid, and I was illustrating that there are forces that want to make it illegal. And they have succeeded in some places. The Canadian Bill C16 is one example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Act_to_amend_the_Canadian_H... >I don't think you actually know any TG people. And I think you have no basis for making that assumption. You are wrong.

> there are forces that want to make it illegal Yep, in the context of a hate crime. Not standalone. Seems reasonable. I don't think you read the link you posted. To quote from it " Speaking for the [Canadian Bar Association], the President, [...] made explicit the protections for transgender people which were already contained in the prohibition on discrimination based on sexual orientation; and did not pose any ris…

Please don't perpetuate flamewars on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#316

Post by bsanr2 »

sascha_sl wrote: post #306
bsanr2 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if studying gender affirmation among cis people wouldn't help to solidify the science behind transitioning and well-being. With presentation of gender being as much of a spectrum as gender itself, it would stand to reason that there are cis individuals who experience dysphoria by way of not physically presenting as as masculine or feminine as they feel themselves to be ( waves ). Non-clinical avenues are som…

While a lot of trans people would like it to be the case, quantity doesn't really matter past receptor saturation. Most badly adjusted doses are badly adjusted because they're not consistent instead (estradiol has a very short half life). If you have gonads producing your hormones you don't usually have this issue. We do however have cases of gender dysphoria when treating cis people with antiandrogens for prostate c…

This assumes that gender dysphoria is exclusively physiological, an impossibility given that gender itself is partially socially- and psychologically-constructed. As mentioned, perhaps hormone treatment could still benefit people who don't have a clinically-indicated deficiency solely because (even in men and women with functional gonads) their application enhances the secondary sexual characteristics (behavioral, psychological, and physical) that a dysphoric individual might find lacking.

My personal take is that a good deal of dysphoria is misdiagnosed as dysmorphia. Because those people are left to self-medicate, unfortunately you end up with the kind of abuse that makes people question the legitimacy of such treatment. I think, though, it's dangerous to lump in people who could benefit from hormonal support for their exercise and antidepression goals (which, for some cis men, would be a gender affirmative strategy), with people who inject synthol or silicone without any medically-viable rationale and in so doing radically damage their bodies (which is what happens now).

In the end, what I'm hoping to see someday is an understanding of a fundamental similarity between the cis and trans experiences, because it would mean both buy-in from and benefits for both groups.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#317

Post by implements »

dragonwriter wrote: post #309
implements wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should intersex conditions be considered normal human genetic variances (like eye colour), or genetic disorders (like Down Syndrome)? It’s humane and polite not to describe people as abnormal, but being medically accurate I’d argue that humans are indeed binary sexed, and immutably so.

> Should intersex conditions be considered normal human genetic variances (like eye colour), or genetic disorders (like Down Syndrome)? Doesn't really matter, for this purpose. > I’d argue that humans are indeed binary sexed, and immutably so. Unless you defining terms such that the variations are not merely disorders but actually nonhuman, you are clearly wrong; human alignments of sex characteristics are non-binary…

> human alignments of sex characteristics are non-binary though bimodal.

You either produce sperm, or ova - or neither (which if caused genetically is an abnormal variant).

“Producing the wrong gamete for one’s perceived gender doesn’t construct an additional sex, nor alter the definition of sex such that there are female sperm / male ova producers - this holds even if that perception has genetic as well as psycho-environmental causes” - in my opinion.

But .. we’re philosophical / political at this point .. which is the problem.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#318

Post by School-Cotton »

ceejayoz wrote: post #100
School-Cotton wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I wouldn’t really care, to be honest. Nobody has ever done that, so I can’t be sure.

In that case, perhaps you're one of the people out there who doesn't strongly identify with any particular gender.

On further thought, whether I disagree with someone calling me a “woman” depends on what they mean by that term.

If they’re using it in the traditional definition (someone with a uterus and XX chromosomes) then I would disagree, because they are factually wrong. If they’re using it in the more modern sense to describe some abstract “gender”, I wouldn’t disagree because I don’t really know what that means. In either case, it wouldn’t offend me.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#319

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

dang wrote: post #315
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are forces that want to make it illegal Yep, in the context of a hate crime. Not standalone. Seems reasonable. I don't think you read the link you posted. To quote from it " Speaking for the [Canadian Bar Association], the President, [...] made explicit the protections for transgender people which were already contained in the prohibition on discrimination based on sexual orientation; and did not pose any ris…

Please don't perpetuate flamewars on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Tricky for me to understand that, @DanG. There was zero flaming on my side - that I can see - and not much on his, just an opinion I truly can't understand but think I need to.

He posted honestly, I posted honestly in response factually and no shouting. So I don't get it.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#320

Post by fock »

Pfhreak wrote: post #266
fock wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but why bother with gender at all in this case?

The feeling of gender dysphoria is not a pleasant one. Coming to an understanding helped me rationalize and address my anxiety. Ultimately, gendered stuff is all around us and it is not so easy to "just not bother".

so you are a non-transsexual transgender? or did you transition to a suitable body?

because yes, gendered stuff is all around us, but in most "though" cases, it mostly seems to relate to sex, because that's something which is easily determinable for a large fraction of human beings.

So your problem was that other people didn't accept you for what you are: is this really different from society not accepting that you would like to have 5 wives, your parents wishing you to be a lawyer, whilst you want to be a shepherd or any other discrimination? Why do we have to divide people on a spectrum (which also suggests that personality is a measurable, which is disturbing...) to remedy this? And why is it necessary for people to advertise their pronouns, when most of the communication, where you need that is non-personal anyway?

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