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Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#121

Post by jbourne007 »

Sylamore wrote: post #3

I've been watching the videos in this youtube channel today, where the last couple of videos have talked about this finding : https://youtu.be/U7F1cnWup9M and https://youtu.be/vE4_LsftNKM Basically the goal is to allow zinc to get into a cell, it needs a helper to get inside the cell (a Zinc Ionophore). Apparently based on the 2nd video, Hydroxychloroquine is even more effective than Chloroquine. It's really importan…

I looked around and found naturally occurring zinc ionophores: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf5014633 Quercetin is present in Red Onions and Epigallocatechin-gallate in green tea. Don't know if they are as effective etc but there's got to be alternatives to Chloroquine....

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#122

Post by sundbry »

hkt wrote: post #60

This seems pretty inconclusive to me; as noted by other posters, we have no data from some of the trials in China and peer review of the potential patient benefits hasn't materialised yet. Not trying to be a downer, but.. As an aside, the number of preppers and conspiracy theorists out on HN under stories like this is awful. Remember, the world has vast infrastructures (CDC, WHO, NHS and equivalents) for working out…

> random stuff which isn't obviously efficacious off the back of a misunderstanding of the science

1) It's not random stuff; there is associated research and a theory of operation how it counteracts the virus

2) Lacking obviousness? By the time the research is settled, you may be very sick already.

3) There is no misunderstanding, there is a risk analysis based on the currently available knowledge. Risk of chloroquine poisoning X probability of effectiveness X risk of acute viral infection.

4) Crowd-sourcing information has shown to be very effective in other times of crisis, a viral outbreak is no different.

The internet is not a place for the information police. We share our ideas here.

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#123

Post by jbourne007 »

rrggrr wrote: post #28

Zinc. Chloroquine provides zinc and ionosphere for absorbtion that likely stops replicase.

I couldn't quite believe that one would have to go so far as to take a drug like Chloroquine as a Zinc ionophore, so I looked around and found naturally occurring stuff like so: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf5014633

however, I don't know about how it compares and if these are as potent as Chloroquine so it would be nice if an expert could opine on whether these natural compounds are as potent.

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#124

Post by ethbro »

roenxi wrote: post #67
ethbro wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still causes shortages. It's just increasing the ultimate gray market resale price. Looking at potential death puts gray market buyers in a weak negotiating position.

There is a shortage either way; there hasn't been a change in the amount of the drug or the number of people who want it in either scenario. If anything, the price going up will increase production and the shortage will lessen as fast as the logistics chain can manage. Basically instead of people choosing where it goes a government agency/hospital system chooses where it goes. After the CDC testing debacle, hopefully…

You're ignoring the concept of wasted resources.

If I buy a test kit, mask, antiviral cocktail, ICU bed for myself, despite being unlikely to need it, and there's a shortage of these resources, I've lessened the sum effectiveness and response.

Personally? I assume the average person is an idiot, where nuanced topics that elicit emotional responses are concerned.

I'd choose experts doing their best to allocate effectively any day of the week.

The fact that experts are not perfect in no way bears on their nonetheless being better than the average person.

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#125

Post by tim333 »

hackeerTwo wrote: post #51
yorwba wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I checked the most recent result from that search: http://www.chictr.org.cn/showproj.aspx?proj=50843 At the very bottom, it says "original data will be published on web-based public database in 6 months after the research" which is a bit disappointing.

Can anyone mention a reasonable explanation for the 6-month delay? All I can think is that they want to prevent irresponsible purchases thus only including it in treatment guidelines for now.

I think the 6 month delay relates to patient by patient data. They can release group statistics before.

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#126

Post by tim333 »

That paper is old and a bit vague. A more recent report is from a trial with 120 patients at Sun Shanxian Memorial Hospital. 110 got better with chloroquine, the hospital's coronavirus tests showed negative on average 4.4 days after starting treatment.

Report "Expert: Chloroquine Phosphate has a negative time of 4.4 days, faster than other drugs" (google translate) http://news.southcn.com/nfplus/gdjktt/content/2020-03/09/con...

I posted it on reddit (271 comments) https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/ffztou/expert_chlo...

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#127

Post by tim333 »

rscho wrote: post #46
shoyer wrote: post #5

For a slightly more balanced perspective, try this paper: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016635422... : Highlights from that paper (all of which look quite reasonable to me, as a non-expert): • In vitro data suggest that chloroquine inhibits SARS Cov-2 replication. • In past research, chloroquine has shown in vitro activity against many different viruses, but no benefit in animal models. • Chloroq…

Thank you for this reasonable view. Those last few days, I have seen a great many people here piling on chloroquine and aggressively promoting it to others. Those people were sometimes alledged scientists. This is worrying. Some countries have it in their emergency guidelines, yes. But is it beyond reasonable doubt that quinine derivatives are useful in humans? No. Absolutely not. People are incredibly prompt to jump…

I linked this above http://news.southcn.com/nfplus/gdjktt/content/2020-03/09/con...

It seems to me beyond reasonable doubt that quinine derivatives are useful in humans. A miracle cure maybe not but almost certainly useful.

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#128

Post by tim333 »

rscho wrote: post #113
3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Some countries” is of course South Korea, which has had one of the lowest mortality rates of covid19. 1. http://m.koreabiomed.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=7428

And of course, you provide evidence of a causal link to quinine derivatives. This is ridiculous. If you really knew the scientific state of clinical research, you would be far more skeptical.

That sort of data while it doesn't prove hydroxychloroquine did it, it does give some hope. If it was the other way that they - that they'd treated everyone with that and had a bad death rate then that would pretty much prove it didn't work.

Another interesting bit of data along those lines is the Chinese added chloroquine to their their treatment guidelines on feb 19th and their death rate dropped about 3 or 4x shortly after https://neutron-assets.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/img/c...

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#129

Post by tim333 »

_m5dp wrote: post #15
vijayr02 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just posted a story about a vaccine being found. Would be great to know from the experts in this area if the approach they describe in the article makes sense https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22565460

I'm fairly certain finding the vaccine is really quite easy to develop and has been done by multiple companies small and large already. The main issue is to do the clinical trials and get it approved and mass produced in a timely fashion. These trials and the validation can take about a year. Here is the official list of currently being developed covid19 vaccines (all in pre-clinical stage) https://www.who.int/bluepr…

Yeah candidate vaccines are easy, proven, safe, working ones hard.

However the Chinese seem prepared to cut corners on the testing and that:

"Coronavirus vaccine could be ready by April, Chinese officials say" https://nypost.com/2020/03/10/coronavirus-vaccine-could-be-r...

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#130

Post by tim333 »

OJFord wrote: post #93
khafra wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tonic water can contain up to 83mg/L actual quinine. Three 2L bottles of tonic water could get you 500mg, a therapeutic dose of quinine. Unfortunately, I have not found any place that manufacturers note how much quinine is in their tonic water.

That'd need at least 2L gin to wash it down with though, which could be problematic depending on the frequency of your 500mg prescription.

I propose a new cocktail consisting of one part gin, three parts tonic, 200 mg hydroxychloroquine plus ice and a slice. Call it a Corona Cocktail maybe. Job done.
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