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Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

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Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#231

Post by TheNorthman »

gmanley wrote: post #195
TheNorthman wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the USSR leadership openly admitted exactly that privately. This sentence is nonsense. They publicly (not privately) thanked the US for their aid. Besides, your framing of the war is obviously false. The allies had lost the war up until about ~1943, where they started gaining momentum. A turning point I'd like to point out is the Battle of Kursk, in which the Germans for the first time cancelled a major operati…

> Their capacity for production was higher because they weren't sending everyone to their death. Well of course that's why. I don't thing anyone is arguing otherwise. OP was simply saying, without the US, the allies would likely have lost. Why the US was able to supply most of the Ally's supplies doesn't take away from the fact that they did. Your not even arguing against anything OP was saying here, other than the "…

I might have lost sight of the forest for the trees there :).

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#232

Post by onetimemanytime »

duck2 wrote: post #216
onetimemanytime wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's destroying the other side completely, whether they are lawyers or government janitors. But in theory courts and military can stop him. He purged the military https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%93present_purges_in... so it's just the court now. Absolute power is dangerous and the mind starts to slip after a while.

It's more complicated than that. The military and the judicial system had to be purged because a religious cult had colonized them, often exerting power for the cult's interests[0] and topping off with the coup attempt in 2016. In turn, the religious cult was allowed (by Erdoğan, with the 2010 referendum) to colonize the military and the judicial system because previously they were colonized by hardliner modernists w…

We've seen the same script play out over and over and over again every time someone wants to become a dictator. So, rational people don't buy the excuses.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#233

Post by jacobush »

kortilla wrote: post #219
rolleiflex wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is neither new nor first. Turkey has a court tradition that spans, at this point, more than seven hundred years (excluding Eastern Roman law with Corpus Iuris Civilis , which if included would bring it to 2500, an unbroken chain from whence it came, Rome) - to the point that it customarily allowed every sub-nation of the Ottoman Empire to have their own court and apply their own laws. For example, if you were Ch…

> stretch everything it can find to give himself more unrestrained power. That should unfortunately be pretty familiar to people who live in the US at this point. Is this level of trolling even considered trying? Trump has done very little to expand the powers of the US presidency.

The executive orders?

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#234

Post by chalst »

akie wrote: post #229
duck2 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more complicated than that. The military and the judicial system had to be purged because a religious cult had colonized them, often exerting power for the cult's interests[0] and topping off with the coup attempt in 2016. In turn, the religious cult was allowed (by Erdoğan, with the 2010 referendum) to colonize the military and the judicial system because previously they were colonized by hardliner modernists w…

> The military and the judicial system had to be purged because a religious cult had colonized them Ok, just so we're clear on this: that's ridiculous nonsense, conspiracy theories basically, but you're using it to justify the indefensible actions of a hard-line authoritarian ruler.

While I wouldn't call the Gulenist movement a cult, they certainly engaged in conspiracies. The irony was that their infiltration into the army and civil service was supported by Erdoğan earlier, as a counterweight to the Kemalist establishment.

Turkey is the country that the term "deep state" was coined to describe. I don't know what to believe about the so-called coup.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#235

Post by insomniacity »

decafbad wrote: post #152
insomniacity wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“DNS queries to all servers are blocked if you try to get a blocked site's IP” Wait, so if I was in Turkey, a request for wikipedia.org to my ISP DNS server would not only have failed, but caused all my other queries to fail as well? For how long?

I think I couldn't explain well. When we use ISP's DNS, we get a local IP address and a web-page at that address, explaining who blocked the site and why. But if I use Google's or Cloudflare's public DNS, the query won't get an answer, falls to timeout.

Gotcha. Thanks for explaining!

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#236

Post by Kaiyou »

akie wrote: post #229
duck2 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more complicated than that. The military and the judicial system had to be purged because a religious cult had colonized them, often exerting power for the cult's interests[0] and topping off with the coup attempt in 2016. In turn, the religious cult was allowed (by Erdoğan, with the 2010 referendum) to colonize the military and the judicial system because previously they were colonized by hardliner modernists w…

> The military and the judicial system had to be purged because a religious cult had colonized them Ok, just so we're clear on this: that's ridiculous nonsense, conspiracy theories basically, but you're using it to justify the indefensible actions of a hard-line authoritarian ruler.

Didn't the same thing happen in South Korea with the Prime Minister being a puppet of some cult or such? What he says doesn't sound far-fetched, just unsubstantiated at this point.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#237

Post by dmos62 »

sedatk wrote: post #190
rdiddly wrote: post #132

"... a 26 December 2019 ruling by the Constitutional Court of Turkey that the more than two and a half year block imposed by the Turkish government was unconstitutional." Your takeaways: 1) Turkey has a Constitutional Court. 2) Turkey has a constitution. 3) The court makes rulings and they are carried out. 4) Erdogan did something and it was "checked" and "balanced." Sounds an awful lot like a nation of laws, ruled b…

More than 300,000 websites are still blocked in Turkey, just to put this in context. Also it's quite naive to assume that lifting the ban wasn't the government's intention, just days before European Court of Human Right's deadline to oversee the case.

This gives an idea of what kind of sites were blocked at the end of 2019:

https://explorer.ooni.org/search?test_name=web_connectivity&...

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#239

Post by Yizahi »

jacquesm wrote: post #55
muznar wrote: post #54

I always wonder what the real effects of these kind of blocks. For even average users of the internet, it was easy to overcome this block by just putting a "0" in front of the domain name. 0wikipedia.org is a clone of wikipedia and it was accessible. WHOIS search shows 0wikipedia domain name was created on 4 May 2017, just five days after the block. I am a Turkish grad student in the US. Whenever I visited Turkey, I…

The real effect is that Turkey will get more and more behind the rest of the world because its citizens do not have access to information. Regimes that block access to the truth are structurally disadvantaging themselves and their citizens in the long run.

That's why you don't need to block offending wiki but simply rewrite it as fit the narrative. Like Russia does - all their "ru" Wikipedia pages are occupied and rewritten by pro-putin forces and whole moderator structure also supports this. Mostly this happens in history and politics pages.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#240

Post by hyko »

rdiddly wrote: post #132

"... a 26 December 2019 ruling by the Constitutional Court of Turkey that the more than two and a half year block imposed by the Turkish government was unconstitutional." Your takeaways: 1) Turkey has a Constitutional Court. 2) Turkey has a constitution. 3) The court makes rulings and they are carried out. 4) Erdogan did something and it was "checked" and "balanced." Sounds an awful lot like a nation of laws, ruled b…

Turkey may be a high functioning autocracy, but it’s still just an autocracy. We’ll continue to call it out as such.
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