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Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

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Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#181

Post by rolleiflex »

jefftk wrote: post #178
rolleiflex wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is neither new nor first. Turkey has a court tradition that spans, at this point, more than seven hundred years (excluding Eastern Roman law with Corpus Iuris Civilis , which if included would bring it to 2500, an unbroken chain from whence it came, Rome) - to the point that it customarily allowed every sub-nation of the Ottoman Empire to have their own court and apply their own laws. For example, if you were Ch…

> if you were Christian, you would get Christian judges, a Muslim would get the Muslim court and a Jewish person would likewise Do you know how this worked with disputes between people of different religions?

I have no idea, and that is a fascinating question.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#182

Post by CamperBob2 »

WanderPanda wrote: post #127
CamperBob2 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, we're still here, and they're gone. I guess that's our fault, huh. It always is.

Maybe you didn‘t win each sprint, but you definitely won the marathon

Eh, I dunno. We'll see. There are indications that the race didn't actually end, but took a turn through some very dark woods.

And unless your name is Pheidippides, there's not much point in winning a marathon if you die on the other side of the finish line.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#183

Post by darkmarmot »

ska wrote: post #175
afterburner wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lot of yelling here today about the block - guys it was lifted. After a ruling by a court. Sure, after 2.5 years. And after being blocked in the first place.

These sorts of court cases are rarely resolved quickly in any country that I know of. It seems easy from the outside, but it isn't.

The primary difference lies in execution. Most countries would err on the side of permitting the site to continue to operate, as with an injunction in the U.S. Here, it was effectively treated "guilty until proven innocent".

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#184

Post by Thorrez »

cnst wrote: post #179

What about here in the US? Wikipedia is blocking my access to their website on my iPad because I'm too poor to afford a new one: https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2019-December/1050... Any news stories about such development? Or do they only care about Turkey?

They don't have a goal of blocking iPads or poor people, they have a goal of blocking old TLS versions.

But yes, I would like to see their reasoning for this decision. How many people were using [1] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/phame/post/view/111/wikipe...

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#185

Post by CamperBob2 »

jacobush wrote: post #153
brownbat wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's somewhat fashionable to say it was all really just a Russian/German war. You rightly point out the contributions of Canada and the UK relative to population. But I have one defense of the naive "but but the US mattered!" view... Khrushchev and Stalin readily admitted that they would have been quickly overrun by the Germans without the US basically flooding the Eastern front with fuel, trucks, munitions an…

Everything else aside, the German industry must have been incredibly strong to withstand the rest of the world against it for so long. Such a double tragedy it was wasted on a horrible war effort in instead of furthering humanity.

Exactly, which is why this argument is so stupid. The evil posed by the Axis was of such a magnitude that it took everyone else working together, all over the world, to end it.

Arguing over who did the most good in WWII is as pointless as arguing over whether Hiroshima or Dresden or Bataan or Unit 731 was the greater atrocity. The only lesson that endures is that humanity shouldn't do any of this stuff again, ever.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#186

Post by YarickR2 »

adventured wrote: post #142
TheNorthman wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US eventually did win the space race They did _because they started a new round_. What the US did is equivalent to losing badly and then screaming "Last goal wins" repeatedly until you score the last goal. Yes, US sources claim a US victory. That doesn't mean they actually won. > The US view is that they did all the heavy lifting, The Soviet Union was responsible for ~80% of german casualties. The Soviets made…

> The Soviet Union was responsible for ~80% of german casualties. None of which would have been possible without the extraordinary industrial might of the US that kept the USSR supplied. They had no capacity to fight minus being supplied. Do you know how much territory the European allies had reclaimed in the years of fighting prior to the US invasion of Europe? None. There is no scenario where Nazi Germany gets defe…

Propaganda at work. USSR didn't _need_ to be supplied; it had resources. Lend lease helped,but wasn't crucial.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#187

Post by m0guz »

kitteh wrote: post #82

Turkey is an interesting country to deal with. For example let's say you are a hosting company in the US and one of your customers is rebroadcasting Turkey television. A turkey govt agency would reach out to you and ask that you terminate that customer. If you refused, they go to the domestic incumbent Telecom (Turk Telecom) and null route your entire company ip addr space. Basically all of turkey won't be able to hi…

Twitter and Youtube occasionally blocked in Turkey for years. They have found their solution in region-locking the contents after court orders. This may not be feasible to small hosting companies though. For youtube and twitter, implementing that control system was the only option to access the Turkey's market.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#188

Post by cnst »

Thorrez wrote: post #184
cnst wrote: post #179

What about here in the US? Wikipedia is blocking my access to their website on my iPad because I'm too poor to afford a new one: https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2019-December/1050... Any news stories about such development? Or do they only care about Turkey?

They don't have a goal of blocking iPads or poor people, they have a goal of blocking old TLS versions. But yes, I would like to see their reasoning for this decision. How many people were using [1] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/phame/post/view/111/wikipe...

Can you explain why blocking old TLS versions is even necessary? Didn't all the browser vendors announced that they're disabling old TLS versions in their browsers in a few months now?

Blocking poor people is the only thing that is accomplished by this policy employed by Wikipedia. It's very sad that everyone's celebrating all these actions, instead of calling Wikipedia out for widening the digital gap, and quite literally expiring your right to read.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#189

Post by vunie »

sdinsn wrote: post #168
rdiddly wrote: post #132

"... a 26 December 2019 ruling by the Constitutional Court of Turkey that the more than two and a half year block imposed by the Turkish government was unconstitutional." Your takeaways: 1) Turkey has a Constitutional Court. 2) Turkey has a constitution. 3) The court makes rulings and they are carried out. 4) Erdogan did something and it was "checked" and "balanced." Sounds an awful lot like a nation of laws, ruled b…

> guys it was lifted After 2.5 years... Let's not pretend like this is some major success. It's a failure by all accounts that luckily ended up OK.

Compared to illegal mass surveillance programs that remain running to this day, and a witty intelligence head who remains free after lying under oath, this is a shinning success that should be celebrated.

Hopefully other nations follow their lead one day.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#190

Post by sedatk »

rdiddly wrote: post #132

"... a 26 December 2019 ruling by the Constitutional Court of Turkey that the more than two and a half year block imposed by the Turkish government was unconstitutional." Your takeaways: 1) Turkey has a Constitutional Court. 2) Turkey has a constitution. 3) The court makes rulings and they are carried out. 4) Erdogan did something and it was "checked" and "balanced." Sounds an awful lot like a nation of laws, ruled b…

More than 300,000 websites are still blocked in Turkey, just to put this in context.

Also it's quite naive to assume that lifting the ban wasn't the government's intention, just days before European Court of Human Right's deadline to oversee the case.

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