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Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

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Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#151

Post by AnimalMuppet »

woodandsteel wrote: post #41
tomerbd wrote: post #17

The people of Turkey have voted for him right? He improved their economic situation enormously, this is democracy, you get who you vote for.

Except lately the economy has been getting much worse. This is a regular pattern with right-wing populist governments. When they get into power they institute a set of economic policies that lead to wide-spread prosperity in the short term, but in the long-term are a disaster. As far as elections go, the government pretends to be in favor of free and fair elections, but its political philosophy is a set of arguments…

> This is a regular pattern with right-wing populist governments.

Left-wing populist governments have been known to do that, too.

And left-wing populist governments have also been known to place a thumb on the scales of elections, in order to make sure that they come out "correctly".

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#152

Post by decafbad »

insomniacity wrote: post #141
decafbad wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the case anymore. They built an application level filter. For example, Wikipedia block was due to http header reading. https wasn't also a solution because of hand-shaking part. Even TOR can be blocked this way but it's reachable through obfs4proxy. Besides that, DNS queries to all servers are blocked if you try to get a blocked site's IP. No hijacking attempt here, as far as I can see. I routed only Wikip…

“DNS queries to all servers are blocked if you try to get a blocked site's IP” Wait, so if I was in Turkey, a request for wikipedia.org to my ISP DNS server would not only have failed, but caused all my other queries to fail as well? For how long?

I think I couldn't explain well. When we use ISP's DNS, we get a local IP address and a web-page at that address, explaining who blocked the site and why. But if I use Google's or Cloudflare's public DNS, the query won't get an answer, falls to timeout.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#153

Post by jacobush »

brownbat wrote: post #130
jacquesm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on whose perception. Common as in 'the world' is something that we don't really have so you are always going to have to go by some locally colored version of events. The US eventually did win the space race, but they lost Rounds 1 and 2 to Russia. The United States getting involved in WW2 when they could no longer ignore it ended up getting the formidable American industrial engine engaged in ways that had…

I know it's somewhat fashionable to say it was all really just a Russian/German war. You rightly point out the contributions of Canada and the UK relative to population. But I have one defense of the naive "but but the US mattered!" view... Khrushchev and Stalin readily admitted that they would have been quickly overrun by the Germans without the US basically flooding the Eastern front with fuel, trucks, munitions an…

Everything else aside, the German industry must have been incredibly strong to withstand the rest of the world against it for so long. Such a double tragedy it was wasted on a horrible war effort in instead of furthering humanity.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#154

Post by ClumsyPilot »

rimliu wrote: post #129
TheNorthman wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common perception is that the US contributed the most to ending WW2 (Not the opinion at the time) Common perception is also that the US won the space race (Not the opinion at the time outside the US). Perhaps "common perception" isn't the right metric to go by.

The other side: in USSR we were not even taught about WWII. It was "The Great Patriotic War". And it was all Red Army vs. Germans.

I was taught in the Russian school system, and while it's true that main emphasis is on the eastern front, but the rest of the world is broadly represented.

I have never meant a person that was not aware of the other fronts, and did not know at least the broad strokes of France/normandy/etc.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#155

Post by ClumsyPilot »

adventured wrote: post #142
TheNorthman wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US eventually did win the space race They did _because they started a new round_. What the US did is equivalent to losing badly and then screaming "Last goal wins" repeatedly until you score the last goal. Yes, US sources claim a US victory. That doesn't mean they actually won. > The US view is that they did all the heavy lifting, The Soviet Union was responsible for ~80% of german casualties. The Soviets made…

> The Soviet Union was responsible for ~80% of german casualties. None of which would have been possible without the extraordinary industrial might of the US that kept the USSR supplied. They had no capacity to fight minus being supplied. Do you know how much territory the European allies had reclaimed in the years of fighting prior to the US invasion of Europe? None. There is no scenario where Nazi Germany gets defe…

How does it compare with domestic production?

Best I can remember, USSR produced about as many tanks as the rest of the world combined during the period.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#156

Post by stallmanite »

justinclift wrote: post #73
suifbwish wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make no mistake, new oppressive regimes will arise which make use of the internet as a tool of oppression. It is not without its costs and they are currently unmeasured as we have not seen the effect of children being exposed to this at such young ages as they currently are. What the internet is also doing is dissolving all culture that does not adhere to a central political set of goals. We also have no idea of the…

> What the internet is also doing is dissolving all culture that does not adhere to a central political set of goals. Aren't the various cultural groups that seem to have sprung up online (including social media) a counter point to that?

I’m wondering how furries, etc. fit into these central political goals. Not taking a position either way but ends could that serve?

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#157

Post by boomboomsubban »

adventured wrote: post #142
TheNorthman wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US eventually did win the space race They did _because they started a new round_. What the US did is equivalent to losing badly and then screaming "Last goal wins" repeatedly until you score the last goal. Yes, US sources claim a US victory. That doesn't mean they actually won. > The US view is that they did all the heavy lifting, The Soviet Union was responsible for ~80% of german casualties. The Soviets made…

> The Soviet Union was responsible for ~80% of german casualties. None of which would have been possible without the extraordinary industrial might of the US that kept the USSR supplied. They had no capacity to fight minus being supplied. Do you know how much territory the European allies had reclaimed in the years of fighting prior to the US invasion of Europe? None. There is no scenario where Nazi Germany gets defe…

>There is no scenario where Nazi Germany gets defeated without the US supplies and invasion and the USSR leadership openly admitted exactly that privately.

Without the USSR involved in the war, US supplies would be unable to help stop the Germans and the German forces would not be spread thin enough for an invasion to be feasible. Both were necessary, but the Soviets gave up much more to secure the victory.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#158

Post by DuskStar »

eblanshey wrote: post #120
navaati wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a billionaire philanthropist you will still have to align to your home country’s foreign policy, because your billions only have value so far as the State enforces your property rights. So very concretely, if China says "hey US of A, please don’t bring uncensored Internet to my citizens: it would be a shame if all this manufacturing and trade suddenly stopped", and the US gov agrees, then Elon Musk will not provid…

China has the technology to shoot down satellites. If SpaceX tries to circumvent China's laws they'll just take out their constellation, so SpaceX has no leverage there. Smaller, third-world countries, maybe there are more chances there. Citizens would likely need to import and manufacture their own antennas illegally that connect to the constellation.

A large part of the advantage of Starlink is that (thanks to SpaceX launch costs) it might genuinely cost more money to destroy than it did to launch. This makes it far harder to deny its use to the US military in times of conflict.

(SpaceX has claimed the cost to build and launch a single Starlink satellite is already under $500,000)

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#159

Post by turtlesdown11 »

rdiddly wrote: post #132

"... a 26 December 2019 ruling by the Constitutional Court of Turkey that the more than two and a half year block imposed by the Turkish government was unconstitutional." Your takeaways: 1) Turkey has a Constitutional Court. 2) Turkey has a constitution. 3) The court makes rulings and they are carried out. 4) Erdogan did something and it was "checked" and "balanced." Sounds an awful lot like a nation of laws, ruled b…

>Sounds an awful lot like a nation of laws, ruled by principles and such.

Beautiful strawman here. Let's let Turkey go on denying genocide, murdering Kurds, destabilizing the region, and arresting political opponents and holding them without charges, because gosh darn it, they let wikipedia in.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#160

Post by Uehreka »

rolleiflex wrote: post #145
agumonkey wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

honest question: is it a first / new or was it already the case before ?

This is neither new nor first. Turkey has a court tradition that spans, at this point, more than seven hundred years (excluding Eastern Roman law with Corpus Iuris Civilis , which if included would bring it to 2500, an unbroken chain from whence it came, Rome) - to the point that it customarily allowed every sub-nation of the Ottoman Empire to have their own court and apply their own laws. For example, if you were Ch…

While we’re talking history: I’ve heard that the system of laws codified under Justinian in the Byzantine empire ended up forming the basis for most Western law systems to this day. My math is probably off here, but is the current Turkish court system a continuous descendant from that system?
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