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Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

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Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#211

Post by remcob »

Twixes wrote: post #198
vunie wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to illegal mass surveillance programs that remain running to this day, and a witty intelligence head who remains free after lying under oath, this is a shinning success that should be celebrated. Hopefully other nations follow their lead one day.

Turkish authorities don't have global tech giants to tap into, but worry not, they're monitoring the internet very closely. In fact, they arrest people over tweets criticizing their rule. [0] And of course they block Wikipedia country–wide, over what Donald Trump would call "fake news" (as he does with news outlets revealing embarrassing facts about him or his administration). Not an example to be followed by any gov…

I think grandparent was not about having surveillance programs or not, but about whether the government is being held accountable to it's own laws. A quality that is worryingly slipping in several nations. Hence the emphasis on 'illegal' and the shoddy investigation with little follow-up.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#212

Post by stale2002 »

rdiddly wrote: post #132

"... a 26 December 2019 ruling by the Constitutional Court of Turkey that the more than two and a half year block imposed by the Turkish government was unconstitutional." Your takeaways: 1) Turkey has a Constitutional Court. 2) Turkey has a constitution. 3) The court makes rulings and they are carried out. 4) Erdogan did something and it was "checked" and "balanced." Sounds an awful lot like a nation of laws, ruled b…

> guys it was lifted. After a ruling by a court.

It took 2 and half years for this to happen. That does not sound like a nation of laws to me.

Imagine if this happened in America. Would you be making apologist arguments, in that situation?

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#214

Post by girvo »

monadic2 wrote: post #106
jacquesm wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real effect is that Turkey will get more and more behind the rest of the world because its citizens do not have access to information. Regimes that block access to the truth are structurally disadvantaging themselves and their citizens in the long run.

I’m not sure I buy this. Sure you can have access to the “truth” in the west, but you also see a staggering amount of propaganda/mass manipulation/willful distraction and no easy way of differentiating the two. That said, wikipedia specifically would be a massive loss to anyone.

This presupposes that misinformation and propaganda doesn’t exist under a “blocking” regime?

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#215

Post by niij »

cnst wrote: post #210
Thorrez wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said it's necessary. But there are certain risks from supporting the old versions. Take a look at this table[1]. In the TLS 1.0 and TLS 1.1 columns not a single cipher is listed as secure. Some can be secure with mitigations, but I'm not familiar with the difficulty of those mitigations, and whether the mitigations would have to be serverside or clientside. If clientside, then by blocking old versions, they m…

That's all fine and dandy, but why does it matter? This is not some sort of personal messaging, banking or financial transactions that we're talking about; this is literally an online resource where any anonymous user can come and edit anything they please without any sort of authentication or peer review whatsoever — on English Wikipedia, all edits are immediately shown to all subsequent visitors/readers, even the v…

They accept credit card donations on the site.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#216

Post by duck2 »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #197
tokai wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes sense why Ergodan is attacking the court system. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/18/un-urged-to-ac...

He's destroying the other side completely, whether they are lawyers or government janitors. But in theory courts and military can stop him. He purged the military https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%93present_purges_in... so it's just the court now. Absolute power is dangerous and the mind starts to slip after a while.

It's more complicated than that. The military and the judicial system had to be purged because a religious cult had colonized them, often exerting power for the cult's interests[0] and topping off with the coup attempt in 2016.

In turn, the religious cult was allowed (by Erdoğan, with the 2010 referendum) to colonize the military and the judicial system because previously they were colonized by hardliner modernists who had a history of doing coups or closing down political parties when someone they don't like come to power, and explicitly threatened Erdoğan[1][2].

[0]: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ex-exam-chief-indicted-over...

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Justice_and_Development_P...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-memorandum

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#217

Post by kortilla »

ska wrote: post #175
afterburner wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lot of yelling here today about the block - guys it was lifted. After a ruling by a court. Sure, after 2.5 years. And after being blocked in the first place.

These sorts of court cases are rarely resolved quickly in any country that I know of. It seems easy from the outside, but it isn't.

Do you have examples of country-wide blocks that were eventually lifted by the courts aside from this one?

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#218

Post by cnst »

niij wrote: post #215
cnst wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all fine and dandy, but why does it matter? This is not some sort of personal messaging, banking or financial transactions that we're talking about; this is literally an online resource where any anonymous user can come and edit anything they please without any sort of authentication or peer review whatsoever — on English Wikipedia, all edits are immediately shown to all subsequent visitors/readers, even the v…

They accept credit card donations on the site.

No, they don't.

There's only one link for words "donate", and it leads to https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:FundraiserRedirect..., which is an entirely different site from en.wikipedia.org.

Or are you saying there's something in PCI-DSS that would prohibit creating a link from an insecure website to a secure one?

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#219

Post by kortilla »

rolleiflex wrote: post #145
agumonkey wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

honest question: is it a first / new or was it already the case before ?

This is neither new nor first. Turkey has a court tradition that spans, at this point, more than seven hundred years (excluding Eastern Roman law with Corpus Iuris Civilis , which if included would bring it to 2500, an unbroken chain from whence it came, Rome) - to the point that it customarily allowed every sub-nation of the Ottoman Empire to have their own court and apply their own laws. For example, if you were Ch…

> stretch everything it can find to give himself more unrestrained power. That should unfortunately be pretty familiar to people who live in the US at this point.

Is this level of trolling even considered trying? Trump has done very little to expand the powers of the US presidency.

Re: Access to Wikipedia restored in Turkey after more than two and a half years

#220

Post by sedatk »

billfruit wrote: post #203
rdiddly wrote: post #132

"... a 26 December 2019 ruling by the Constitutional Court of Turkey that the more than two and a half year block imposed by the Turkish government was unconstitutional." Your takeaways: 1) Turkey has a Constitutional Court. 2) Turkey has a constitution. 3) The court makes rulings and they are carried out. 4) Erdogan did something and it was "checked" and "balanced." Sounds an awful lot like a nation of laws, ruled b…

But court could have stayed the block till it finished arguing the case, but it didn't. It let the block be for 2.5 years, while it made up its mind. To my eye it is problematic that.

Because they finally reached the deadline before ECHR takes over and they don't want EU to be involved.
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