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Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

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Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#121
post #105
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However even authoritarian regimes are different. E.g. Stalin's Soviet Russia is quite different from post-Stalin Soviet Russia while both are authoritarian regimes. I don't want to live in either but if I had to choose from the two that's definitely not under Stalin's sun. Based on what people talk in Iran authoritarian regime is much more relaxed now. The only reason why we don't see revolution in Iran yet is that…

I did't mean Iran is a worst regime ever. I was only objecting to claiming it being 'roughly the same' as Netherlands in 1980s based on one trait, that is women's rights. Considering Stalin's regime it was quite progressive wrt gender equality for it's time: women had equal rights to vote (even if voting was meaningless), could study at universities and work almost any job they wanted. Still, it was a brutal totalita…

Would some ex-soviet country be better example? Again, we have very different stories for ex-soviet countries as well.

Overall I agree with you.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Iran is anti west (especially anti U.S) and S.A is happy to cooperate with the West as long as it can keep it's current regime. So in western eyes Iran is dangerous and S.A is mostly an ally. This isn't necessarily supposed to be "fair", if Iran doesn't like the current state of affairs it can abandon it's expansionist aspirations and nuclear weapons, stop with the "Death to America" mindset and all sanctions wo…

Iran is anti-USA solely because the USA is anti-Iran. They've made a number of attempts to normalize relations but the USA just keeps going back to tarring Iran as evil before long.

Yep. Anti-usa sentiment (and posters here are seriously overestimating any such sentiment imo) was originally rooted in the reaction to the CIA-backed coup that overthrew a progressive, democratically elected prime minister and effectively installed of the shah, regarded by many as a despot, who was of course on fabulous terms with the US.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#123

The Gender-Equality Paradox in STEM https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/095679761774171... "...life-quality pressures in less gender-equal countries promote girls’ and women’s engagement with STEM subjects." The above paper didn't include Iran (I think?) but Tunisia, UAE, Algeria and Turkey all had the most proportion of women in STEM and the lowest gender equality out of all the countries. They are probably…

Iranian women have been historically been very well-educated, and this predates the Islamic republic. They've been churning out lots of female engineers and physicians for some time. I know women well into their 70s who are graduates of med school in Tehran and practicing in the US for e.g.

I'm not sure how you can hypothesize these things without any historical and cultural context

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#124
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was just about pay, surely the incentive would work on boys just as much as girls? I think the idea is that STEM attainment confers social status, and in cultures with low gender equality it's one of the few ways girls can gain social status independently of men. They can then leverage that status to gain economic and other freedoms. Boys on the other hand have other ways available to them to gain economic adva…

Lol @ stem conferring social status. Most stem is just desk work. Its not some romantic mars mission for 99.999% of even the best engineers. The only thing buying status is the paycheck. Money empowers women. Its that simple.

Uh, an engineering degree from a good school confers plenty of status in some of the countries we are duscussing, in which teens stop socializing their last year of high school to prepare for college entrance exams

And we can be similarly reductive about any profession. Lawyers are just paper pushers, academics are glorified grant Chasers, and so on

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#125
post #21
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey by Western standards is not heaven either ;-) While I agree that are a lot of myths and false assumptions about Iran.

Well technically they are still in the process of joining the EU...

I've never believed that will never actually happen. For all of turkeys public relations efforts pushing their euro identify, European countries don't care for the Turks, don't identify with them culturally, and will never allow it. Erdogan doesn't help their cause either, obviously.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#126
post #5

I was in Iran last year so let's give some perspective why this metric alone is useless: 1. Before university boys and girls learn in separate schools. 2. After university women have almost zero chances for career. It is more probably that they will end up being house wives. I doubt that this has changed in a year. I have not checked my facts - that's impression from speaking with open minded Iranian families (and we…

Most of this is an outright fabrication. Marry their cousin????

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#127
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know what hypocritical means???? That the US is opposed to Iran has nothing today with human rights or gays or anything like that. > which I doubt, since as I said it cooperates with Western interests Again, you seem to suffer under the delusion that the West interest have something to do with human rights. Its really not up for debate, SA is less Western in pretty much every single way. Both win the governemn…

I never said the U.S opposes Iran only on the base of it's treatment of gays: but it definitely doesn't help. The gay thing is just an example, Iran is a full blown theocracy governed by a totalitarian regime; everything is censored. It's leaders spread hate to the U.S: "Death to America!" (when did Obama or Bush or even Trump ever use such speech?), and it's a destabilising element in the region. Russia and North Ko…

You suffer under the total delusion that the US cares about human rights, totalitarianism, censoriship and things like that. Or even if people who cry 'Death to America'. PLEASE STOP IT. THE US DOESNT GIVE SINGLE SHIT ABOUT THAT.

If your analyisis of US forign policy includes "US does X because country Y is against gay rights" or "because its a totalitarian regime" then you are already totally deluded yourself about what is happening in international politics.

Half the countries that are allied with the US would be opponents if they cared about thise things thus analysis of issues with that premis are non-starter.

The US has supported groups and countries that are far, far worse in each of those aspects, that makes the US position totally clear. It simply doesn't care.

Thus its utter hypocracy to claim its hostility with Iran is based on those things are simply lies to confuse the uninformed US population.

> it's a destabilising element in the region

I would argue that's not actually true. That is, the US media likes to talk about it, because everything that the US doesn't like 'is destabalizing' but is it destabalizing to what? The US interest, not the region itself.

In reality of course the main destabalizing force in the ME is the US itself. The Iraq war is and was the most destabalizing event in modern ME history. Afganistan, Lebanon, trying to overthrow Assad and the list goes on.

Iran supports Assad against Rebelion. The US calles that 'destabalizing', well that regmin has existed for 40 years and the US policy of overthrowing it was actually the destabalizing factor. If the Assad regmin would fall, anybody knowlagable about Syria will tell you that the possible replacments are far, far worse then Assad. The US knew this and thus never went all-in against Assad, they got smarter after Iraq.

Iran supports Hezbollah, who are a part of the Lebanese government and whatever you want to say about them, they are not a destabalizing force. In fact Hezbollah was primarly responsable for defeating ISIS on the boarder to Lebanon and preventing ISIS to spread into Lebanon.

Iran fought ISIS in Iraqi-Kurdistan and in Iraq. In fact Iran was vital to those battles (even while the US takes all the credit). Is fighting the most evil terrorist regmin that has existed in 100s of years destablizing? Or the opposite?

Iran has allowed Qatar to use its airspace when Saudi Arabia started to blockade them. They also traded with Qatar, even when they were not really friendly with each other.

So please tell me, is fighting ISIS and opposing Saudi Arabian aggression in Qatar and Yemen 'destabalizing'? No it is not. Its simply against the US interest.

No compare this to US allies. Is it destabalizing to send a massive air and land army into Yemen as Saudis and UAE have done? Is it destabalizing to blockade another country? Is it destabalizing to support Whabi radicals in Syria rather then fight them? Is it destbalizing to destroy a democracy threw a military coup?

> Russia and North Korea got sanctions for their behavior, I don' see why Iran shouldn't. Their population is far from starving. I tend to agree the sanctions have yet to prove themselves, but it's a much better tool than full blown war which nobody wants.

I don't think sanction in some cases are totally unreasonable. If Iran invaded Basra (equivalent of taking Crima) then sanction would make sense. But the sanctions are not for any of these things mentioned above.

They are because of a missile program that doesn't even get them up to parity with Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, India, Israel. And are thus unreasonable against a country with 90 million people and legit security questions on its boarders.

The other set of sanctions are because of their nuclear program that they have addressed with a internationally binding treaty. They reassured and rereassured everybody about that program. However the US, despite all the evidence of both their own security services, the IAEA and international pressure have gone back on the deal.

So, once Iran invades Basra, or once Iran actually tries to build nuclear weapons, I will argue with you if sanction them makes sense. Currently they simple don't.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#128
post #15
post #6

Actually, most of Western opinion about Iran is misguided and plain wrong. Iran is really not as terrible as all the propaganda about it. In fact its quite much like Turkey, except the politicians are better and its not as corrupt.

Iran bans females from attending sports events and imposes mandatory hijab (e.g. [0]), Turkey does not. You can oppose Western policy if you like, but lets talk about the country's policies as they really are. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/10/iranian-female...

Saudi Arabia is way worse than Iran in terms of womens rights, but nobody cares because theres no propaganda against them... US foreign policy is like the most hypocritical agenda ever conceived. China is communist, but they dont care since theyre making money off China, while the Soviets communism was a target of propaganda all the time. Also, just to add, Iran was very liberal until 1979 when the Ayatollah Khomeini came to power, and he only came to power because the Shah raised oil prices and the Americans approved of Khomeini coming back to Iran.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#129
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran bans females from attending sports events and imposes mandatory hijab (e.g. [0]), Turkey does not. You can oppose Western policy if you like, but lets talk about the country's policies as they really are. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/10/iranian-female...

Is Turkey really that much progressive than Iran ? Turkey is quite connected to Germany even though many don't want to admit that, so I would agree that, superficially at least, it looks more western-ish. But IIRC a couple of years ago there was a coup attempt in Turkey, lots of journalists, academics, judges, etc. were instantaneously thrown into jail, etc. So I'm unsure how much of that "western-look" that Turkey h…

In terms of Greece’s liberal progressive spectrum, in fact, the tradition of a newly wed bride’s father gifting the groom a house/apt is still a thing. I know because I am from the Balkans. As much as you think that Greece is progressive, its actually not, in the western sense of the word. Also, I dont really believe that one can have an individual’s opinion of progressiveness, or whether ones left wing or right wing, I believe that most things people believe in are there because of their herd mentality, and of course theres the wealthy and powerful people who are trying to keep the citizens in a status quo. Chomsky has a great book on this. Also, I believe it was Napoleon who said “Religion is why the poor havent murdered the rich yet”

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#130
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran bans females from attending sports events and imposes mandatory hijab (e.g. [0]), Turkey does not. You can oppose Western policy if you like, but lets talk about the country's policies as they really are. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/10/iranian-female...

> Iran bans females from attending sports events and imposes mandatory hijab But would that really be that terrible in the grad scheme of things? Would you not wear a mandatory hat and renounce on sport events if everything else was faily good? This only seems like massive oppression from our privileged western view.

I actually fairly agree with your point on this. Its really not as bad as people make it seem to be
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