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Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

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Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#71

Post by TulliusCicero »

tasogare wrote: post #45
curiousgal wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only speak for Tunisia but the reason women go into STEM is purely economical. STEM jobs pay the most. The way I see it, a lack of women in STEM is a symptom of a healthy economy, who wouldn't want to not deal with spaghetti code if money was not an issue?

> The way I see it, a lack of women in STEM is a symptom of a healthy economy Exactly. What is observable in Japan, where a decent job can still provide for a whole family, is that more than half of women choose to be stay-at-home mom. This is not a plot of "the Patriarchy" but something that make sense for them. On the other side, the current trend in the West to promote women and foreigner work under the diversity…

> There are, at all times, a number of unattached young ladies in your office. Most of them choose to quit right about when they get married or have children.

> You might imagine that you heard a supervisor tell a young lady in the office “Hey, you’re 30 and aging out of the marriage market, plus I hear you’re dating someone who is not one of my employees, so you might want to think about moving on soon.”, but that would be radioactively illegal, since Japanese employment discrimination laws are approximately equivalent to those in the US. A first-rate Japanese company would certainly never do anything illegal, and a proper Japanese salaryman would never bring his company into disrepute by saying obviously untrue things like the company is systematically engaged in illegal practices. So your ears must be deceiving you. Pesky ears.

https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan...

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#72

Post by TulliusCicero »

nabla9 wrote: post #43
thereyougo wrote: post #10

Two months ago I went to a journey called the 'Mongol Rally' which is basically a race when you need to drive from the Czech Republic to Mongolia in a shitty car Because I'm from Israel my team couldn't get into Iran but other teams got into Iran and all of them were extremely surprised. Iranians know how to welcome tourists, they were extremely friendly, the food is delicious, the country is beautiful, and many peop…

More I have studied international relations literacy, more surprised I am of how Iran is misrepresented in public. Iranian leadership is not crazy group of religious lunatics. Ayatollahs are very conservative group of politicians who use religion for political control. There is nothing there that can't be explained by normal power politics. They have goals and constraints. Their main goal internationally is to become…

> Iranian leadership is not crazy group of religious lunatics. Ayatollahs are very conservative group of politicians who use religion for political control.

It's not the motivation, it's the use. From a classical liberal western perspective, the government explicitly using religion for control is being a crazy religious lunatic.

We're talking about a country where Islam is the official religion, renouncing it is illegal, and so is blasphemy against it. For Gods' sake, to apply to university you have to pass an exam on Islamic theology! With that as a baseline, you hardly need to go any further before you look like a completely kooky religious crazyman.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#73

Post by nabla9 »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #72
nabla9 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More I have studied international relations literacy, more surprised I am of how Iran is misrepresented in public. Iranian leadership is not crazy group of religious lunatics. Ayatollahs are very conservative group of politicians who use religion for political control. There is nothing there that can't be explained by normal power politics. They have goals and constraints. Their main goal internationally is to become…

> Iranian leadership is not crazy group of religious lunatics. Ayatollahs are very conservative group of politicians who use religion for political control. It's not the motivation, it's the use. From a classical liberal western perspective, the government explicitly using religion for control is being a crazy religious lunatic. We're talking about a country where Islam is the official religion, renouncing it is ille…

Everything you say applies to Saudi Arabia.

There is no justification to not having Iran as an ally instead of Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#74

Post by skitout »

joelbluminator wrote: post #69
jaredklewis wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both Iran and S.A. are radical islamists countries (one could even argue that S.A. is worse). What argument could there possibly be that Iran is “worse” than S.A.? As bad as things like human rights are in Iran, they are far worse in SA. The democracy index ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index ) rates SA a half point lower than Iran, which is fairy significant. Freedom house also rates SA as less free…

Well Iran is anti west (especially anti U.S) and S.A is happy to cooperate with the West as long as it can keep it's current regime. So in western eyes Iran is dangerous and S.A is mostly an ally. This isn't necessarily supposed to be "fair", if Iran doesn't like the current state of affairs it can abandon it's expansionist aspirations and nuclear weapons, stop with the "Death to America" mindset and all sanctions wo…

For sure they don't want to give it up for free ! Just like any country Iran want to defend its interests, to play its hand the best it can... And leverage in many countries (now even in Africa) and the nuclear weapon are "trump card" in the game, so they reinforce it for now... They will wait for the next US election and see how they can work something after it

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#75

Post by simonh »

curiousgal wrote: post #41
thinkingemote wrote: post #39

The Gender-Equality Paradox in STEM https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/095679761774171... "...life-quality pressures in less gender-equal countries promote girls’ and women’s engagement with STEM subjects." The above paper didn't include Iran (I think?) but Tunisia, UAE, Algeria and Turkey all had the most proportion of women in STEM and the lowest gender equality out of all the countries. They are probably…

I can only speak for Tunisia but the reason women go into STEM is purely economical. STEM jobs pay the most. The way I see it, a lack of women in STEM is a symptom of a healthy economy, who wouldn't want to not deal with spaghetti code if money was not an issue?

If it was just about pay, surely the incentive would work on boys just as much as girls?

I think the idea is that STEM attainment confers social status, and in cultures with low gender equality it's one of the few ways girls can gain social status independently of men. They can then leverage that status to gain economic and other freedoms.

Boys on the other hand have other ways available to them to gain economic advantage, which are not easily available to girls in those societies.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#76

Post by NeedMoreTea »

skitout wrote: post #68
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were to look at Iran before the revolution, you'd find them as liberal as most and more so than many parts of the West - the Catholic nations - in the same era. So it's only improvement if you're looking at post-revolutionary Iran. Extend timeline a little further back and it's a giant leap backwards.

I think I read somewhere that revolution actually boosted girl literacy and girl attendance to school and high school because most of Iran outside big cities was very conservative and did not trust secular school... I think there were and there is huge difference between some area in Tehran and different places in the countryside

General literacy is very different to university level education. Anyway, wasn't parent talking of what options are there after the qualification? To get a career with that BSc, or become a housewife...

That there is difference between capital and countryside is not surprising. You'll find that in every nation except city states, throughout history - London compared to the rural parts of Yorkshire or the Scottish Islands. Washington DC compared to rural Ohio or Mississippi. Actually these days, London compared to everywhere else in the UK.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#78

Post by joelbluminator »

skitout wrote: post #74
joelbluminator wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Iran is anti west (especially anti U.S) and S.A is happy to cooperate with the West as long as it can keep it's current regime. So in western eyes Iran is dangerous and S.A is mostly an ally. This isn't necessarily supposed to be "fair", if Iran doesn't like the current state of affairs it can abandon it's expansionist aspirations and nuclear weapons, stop with the "Death to America" mindset and all sanctions wo…

For sure they don't want to give it up for free ! Just like any country Iran want to defend its interests, to play its hand the best it can... And leverage in many countries (now even in Africa) and the nuclear weapon are "trump card" in the game, so they reinforce it for now... They will wait for the next US election and see how they can work something after it

"Iran want to defend it's interests" : well arguably bringing your country to the brink of economic collapse due to American sanctions isn't in Iran's best interests. We will see what the new American president (could be still Trump btw) is gonna do.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#79

Post by Yuval_Halevi »

air7 wrote: post #63
thereyougo wrote: post #10

Two months ago I went to a journey called the 'Mongol Rally' which is basically a race when you need to drive from the Czech Republic to Mongolia in a shitty car Because I'm from Israel my team couldn't get into Iran but other teams got into Iran and all of them were extremely surprised. Iranians know how to welcome tourists, they were extremely friendly, the food is delicious, the country is beautiful, and many peop…

Wow the Mongol Rally sounds amazing. Can I get in touch to ask you about it?

Sure.

Add me and send a message here:

https://twitter.com/Yuval_Halevi

And as for proof for the reaching the Mongol Rally finish line: https://imgur.com/a/LVz4DMv

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#80

Post by nickik »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #72
nabla9 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More I have studied international relations literacy, more surprised I am of how Iran is misrepresented in public. Iranian leadership is not crazy group of religious lunatics. Ayatollahs are very conservative group of politicians who use religion for political control. There is nothing there that can't be explained by normal power politics. They have goals and constraints. Their main goal internationally is to become…

> Iranian leadership is not crazy group of religious lunatics. Ayatollahs are very conservative group of politicians who use religion for political control. It's not the motivation, it's the use. From a classical liberal western perspective, the government explicitly using religion for control is being a crazy religious lunatic. We're talking about a country where Islam is the official religion, renouncing it is ille…

But Iran also has churches and synagogues, minorities in the parlament, by far the most empowered womans movement, an actual native republican and liberal intellectual tradition, a liberal, both economic and social elite (even within the regimn) and so on.

The population is also far less 'bought in' to these rules and police has a hard time enforcing clothing regulations for example.

In terms of religous freedom and religous pluralism Iran is leaps and bounds ahead of Saudi Arabia and many of the Arab states.

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