Not all Islamic societies are against educating women. Another thing that sometimes happens in deeply patriarchal societies is that women are freer to engage in non-earning pursuits. So they study because they don't have to worry about supporting families but they wouldn't be allowed to work later on. It is also seen in India, e.g., where lots of women study but gender participation in the workforce has actually dropped in recent years because it isn't acceptable for them to work.
Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities
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Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities
#52I was in Iran last year so let's give some perspective why this metric alone is useless: 1. Before university boys and girls learn in separate schools. 2. After university women have almost zero chances for career. It is more probably that they will end up being house wives. I doubt that this has changed in a year. I have not checked my facts - that's impression from speaking with open minded Iranian families (and we…
Almost zero chances? They can't do freelancer or similar?
Oh right, the USA's sanctions.
Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities
#53The Gender-Equality Paradox in STEM https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/095679761774171... "...life-quality pressures in less gender-equal countries promote girls’ and women’s engagement with STEM subjects." The above paper didn't include Iran (I think?) but Tunisia, UAE, Algeria and Turkey all had the most proportion of women in STEM and the lowest gender equality out of all the countries. They are probably…
Mu impression is that gender roles are essentially luxury consumption. In rich countries your lifestyle will always be at least ok, so yo can afford to care that your career is manly/womanly enough. In poorer countries you don't say no to education that will greatly improve your lifestyle.
Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities
#54Actually, most of Western opinion about Iran is misguided and plain wrong. Iran is really not as terrible as all the propaganda about it. In fact its quite much like Turkey, except the politicians are better and its not as corrupt.
You should blog about it and demonstrate how nice it is like this couple. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-49670973 "Our biggest motivation... is to hopefully inspire anyone wanting to travel, and also try to break the stigma around travelling to countries which get a bad wrap [sic] in the media,"
Assuming the claim of them flying drones is true, they’re pretty lucky.
I think if there were Iranians flying drones near a US military base, prison would be an upgrade from whatever treatment they’d get.
Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities
#55I was in Iran last year so let's give some perspective why this metric alone is useless: 1. Before university boys and girls learn in separate schools. 2. After university women have almost zero chances for career. It is more probably that they will end up being house wives. I doubt that this has changed in a year. I have not checked my facts - that's impression from speaking with open minded Iranian families (and we…
I was born in 1983 in the Netherlands. My mom, and all my friends' moms, were housewives. About half of these moms were university educated or comparably. All their daughters now have proper jobs. Sounds like Iran is roughly in the same place now, which I assume is a big improvement over some decades ago. Just give it another generation. Anecdotally, I've tought some CS classes at the local university, to a highly mi…
If you were to look at Iran before the revolution, you'd find them as liberal as most and more so than many parts of the West - the Catholic nations - in the same era. So it's only improvement if you're looking at post-revolutionary Iran. Extend timeline a little further back and it's a giant leap backwards.
Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities
#56Actually, most of Western opinion about Iran is misguided and plain wrong. Iran is really not as terrible as all the propaganda about it. In fact its quite much like Turkey, except the politicians are better and its not as corrupt.
Iran bans females from attending sports events and imposes mandatory hijab (e.g. [0]), Turkey does not. You can oppose Western policy if you like, but lets talk about the country's policies as they really are. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/10/iranian-female...
It hasn't been quite 100 years since women got the vote in the USA.. Women's rights are the way up in Iran.
I think the implicit comparison here is to Israel and Saudi Arabia. The later of which our leadership seems to have nothing but good things to say even after 9/11, Khashoggi, and Yemen(with weapons from us).
Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was born in 1983 in the Netherlands. My mom, and all my friends' moms, were housewives. About half of these moms were university educated or comparably. All their daughters now have proper jobs. Sounds like Iran is roughly in the same place now, which I assume is a big improvement over some decades ago. Just give it another generation. Anecdotally, I've tought some CS classes at the local university, to a highly mi…
I think it's one of the problems with people from the West reasoning about authoritarian countries. You try to evaluate countries that are like 30-100 years behind by the metrics that are relevant for the Western world _today_ (like gender gap, etc.). The problem with Iran, in the first place is that it is an authoritarian theocracy with no freedom of speech, assembly and association, freedom of religion, right to fa…
However even authoritarian regimes are different. E.g. Stalin's Soviet Russia is quite different from post-Stalin Soviet Russia while both are authoritarian regimes. I don't want to live in either but if I had to choose from the two that's definitely not under Stalin's sun. Based on what people talk in Iran authoritarian regime is much more relaxed now. The only reason why we don't see revolution in Iran yet is that they still remember the last one. They expect to get normal government somehow without revolution but I doubt that they will succeed with that.
Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can only speak for Tunisia but the reason women go into STEM is purely economical. STEM jobs pay the most. The way I see it, a lack of women in STEM is a symptom of a healthy economy, who wouldn't want to not deal with spaghetti code if money was not an issue?
> The way I see it, a lack of women in STEM is a symptom of a healthy economy Exactly. What is observable in Japan, where a decent job can still provide for a whole family, is that more than half of women choose to be stay-at-home mom. This is not a plot of "the Patriarchy" but something that make sense for them. On the other side, the current trend in the West to promote women and foreigner work under the diversity…
is that the entire story? there is a pole every year whether a man could handle having a woman as a boss. In Japan it's still 70-80% say "no". Many Japanese women might choose to stay home but many effectively have few other choices
more anecdata: a Japanese friend of mine moved back to Japan (Tokyo) after 10 years in the states to raise her 2 kids. She tried to get a job and was told "go home and take care of your kids" by several companies. She moved back to the USA after realizing how much she no longer belongs.
note I've heard the idea the as a society gets more prosperous women seem to choose less STEM options. That might be true but I don't think Japan is a good example.
Maybe China?
Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can only speak for Tunisia but the reason women go into STEM is purely economical. STEM jobs pay the most. The way I see it, a lack of women in STEM is a symptom of a healthy economy, who wouldn't want to not deal with spaghetti code if money was not an issue?
> The way I see it, a lack of women in STEM is a symptom of a healthy economy Exactly. What is observable in Japan, where a decent job can still provide for a whole family, is that more than half of women choose to be stay-at-home mom. This is not a plot of "the Patriarchy" but something that make sense for them. On the other side, the current trend in the West to promote women and foreigner work under the diversity…
My feeling is when we talk about diversity and women issues, we often talk about executive job, or job with high salary / some influence on the society (like well payed job in tech). In those cases this is not about lowering wages. This is about performance and ethic.
Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities
#60[deleted]