Google suspends some business with Huawei • Hacker News Board

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#461

Post by rchaud » Mon, May 20, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

neilv wrote: post #36

> has suspended business with Huawei that requires the transfer of hardware and software products except those covered by open source licenses, Could this nudge an interesting (good/bad) development in open source?

I don't know about open source, but I'd be happy to see more Android phones that don't have Google Play services and suite of surveillance apps. Not going to get that on Huawei phones, but if Huawei starts to de-emphasize the Play Store in the future, devs might start looking to move away from Google Play distribution and towards APK downloads on their own sites.

Let's face it, the "app economy" doesn't exist unless you're on iOS and can count on a paying audience. On Android, your only hope for monetization is a free to play Clash of Clans/Candy Crush clone that's jam-packed with ads, tracking and microtransactions.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#462

Post by tptacek » Mon, May 20, 2019, 2:32 PM UTC

windexh8er wrote: post #446

rayiner wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawful Intercept is not a backdoor: > The surveillance is performed through the use of wiretaps on traditional telecommunications and Internet services in voice, data, and multiservice networks. The LEA delivers a request for a wiretap to the target's service provider, who is responsible for intercepting data communication to and from the individual. The service provider uses the target's IP address or session to det…

Lawful intercept isn't itself a backdoor, but it did provide one that was exposed via Snowden. In this case I'll call a spade a spade: many lawful intercept tools were used as backdoors, or overreach of legal authority. Again, keep in mind the context of my original comment: the years 2010-2011 which was pre-Snowden. The FBI may have stepped in with a heavy hand for many reasons but those reasons may have included in…

PRISM was literally a system for handling the paperwork for lawful intercepts. There are instances of the USG exceeding its authority, but you've somehow managed to cite one of the few leaked programs that had an almost purely lawful purpose.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#463

Post by rasz » Mon, May 20, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

nisa wrote: post #454

rasz wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Project is so European it goes against interests of 1/3 EU: Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, the Slovak Republic, Romania, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Croatia. Its not "EU buy gas from wherever we want", Its Germany making deals with Russia once again, remember Ribbentrop/Molotov? Russia is already hard at work making you forget https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/.premium-after-russian-pr... , buying gas from Rus…

It's still in the public and debated - even if controversial - quite a difference to blackmail behind closed-doors...

Its neither debated nor in public. It was negotiated in secret and being build as we speak while company behind it prepares to sue EU.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#464

Post by ksec » Mon, May 20, 2019, 3:14 PM UTC

cromwellian wrote: post #447

ksec wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. And I am surprised at the amount of downvote and I quote "an assertion that is a fairly well-known fact."

Where’s your citation on P30 sales figures? If apple doesn’t sell as many iPhone X’s as P30s in China does that make Apple not a premium manufacturer if most of their sales are lower end? https://www.huaweicentral.com/huawei-p30-series-single-day-s... https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/01/huawei-ahead-of-apple-in-q1-... In 2018, they shipped 16 million P20s in 9 months. And they shipped 100,000 in a single day which could…

Because Apple report their Smartphone ASP, ( at least in iPhone X era ) And you will need to look up even the worst of iPhone X estimate shipment figures.

No one, me or the previous one who replied said anything about P20 not selling. Nor the P30. It is simply not leading premium Smartphone, where Smartphone here is inclusive of iOS. Not by commonly used matrix, where the word leading would directly referred to market ASP and not leading as in technically. And I said this again, it would be correct if the sentence was leading premium Android Smartphone. Or Leading Smartphone ( Excluding Android ) or Leading Android would also be correct.

And I am out.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#465

Post by noobermin » Mon, May 20, 2019, 3:27 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #396

windexh8er wrote: post #274

This isn't surprising. What the US government wants the government gets. I was working for a large ISP in 2010-2011 and we were considering long haul transport gear between Huawei and Infinera. All things being equal Huawei had a better cost/performance value prop. That was, until the FBI came in with a heavy handed opinion. You see at that point in time the best place to siphon data was at large ingress/egress. As I…

Pretty much every developed country has some framework for collecting electronic data pursuant to legal process: https://tmt.bakermckenzie.com/-/media/minisites/tmt/files/20... . Country after country has decided that the government should have access to that information to perform legitimate government law enforcement functions. (The process can be abused, sure, but the functionality must be present to permit entire…

This is fine as long as they get a warrant. As long as that's not the case then such searches should be considered unconstitutional.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#466

Post by noobermin » Mon, May 20, 2019, 3:30 PM UTC

Despegar wrote: post #163

cromwellian wrote: post #114

In a way, this helps Apple (and other Android vendors) and in a way, it hurts it. Huawei phones recently have shipped market leading cameras that blow pretty much all other Android and iPhone cameras out of the water. They took a commanding lead as a premium device manufacturer. Hurting their non-China markets gives breathing space to others. However, if I were Apple, I'd be really worried about retaliation. Apple is…

The last thing China wants during a trade war is to have the 3 million people in Apple's supply chain unemployed and angry. This particular leverage is also why iMessage isn't blocked in China.

They could still hazard it.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#467

Post by bracobama » Mon, May 20, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

aristophenes wrote: post #158

0xDEFC0DE wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So basically a viewpoint that I tend to agree with is that this is all about resetting the trade relationship to a normal one between peers. Fairly sure you're wrong on this, the US now wants an advantageous relationship. Not an even score. Just returning to even ground would let China keep the advantages it has reaped.

That would be reasonable, but China has had such an advantage for so long that just getting them to a level playing field will appear to be a devastating loss. This has been furthered by how the situation has been portrayed in the media in both China and the US and around the world, with the US as the aggressor. I believe this has caused the Chinese government to miscalculate, thinking the US will lose support and ba…

In regards to your last point about being patient, both the US and China know that waiting an additional 20-30 years will be at the detriment of China as they cannot compete with US population replacement levels. Compare the following graphs: US projected population: https://i.imgur.com/0UN8eNy.jpg, China projected population: https://i.imgur.com/yDsLnnb.jpg.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#468

Post by partiallypro » Mon, May 20, 2019, 3:47 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #365

partiallypro wrote: post #121

You do know that China actively has concentration camps, right? They use data and tech they've stolen to do it. You really think that's the same as Facebook serving you ads? Give me a break.

This comment crosses into nationalistic and political flamewar and that is not ok here. No (I sense I need to add), I'm not defending concentration camps, just defending HN against burning itself to a crisp. If you want to participate on HN, please contribute to thoughtful conversation. "Concentration camps [...] give me a break" does not qualify. Moreover, we've had to warn you about this exact thing before. Would y…

I don't see how pointing out a country has concentration camps (reported by multiple outlets, like the NYTs) is "nationalistic," or against the spirit of the site. In fact the story has been reported here...A LOT.

https://hn.algolia.com/?query=china%20muslims&sort=byPopular...

https://hn.algolia.com/?query=china%20concentration&sort=byP...

I don't see anyone being "warned" about their -submissions- on this very topic. Maybe I'm missing something, but it feels like this "policy" is not evenly enforced. In fact a US political topic in regards to rights is currently on the front page:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19959428

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#469

Post by lone_haxx0r » Mon, May 20, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #434

lone_haxx0r wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the US having freedom really was just a meme after all.

Following the requirements of a judge is not necessarily antithetical to Freedom. Even in societies where freedom is values, conspiracy to murder (say) tends to be frowned upon.

But Cisco hasn't conspired to murder anyone.

Re: Google suspends some business with Huawei

#470

Post by dang » Mon, May 20, 2019, 6:04 PM UTC

partiallypro wrote: post #468

dang wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment crosses into nationalistic and political flamewar and that is not ok here. No (I sense I need to add), I'm not defending concentration camps, just defending HN against burning itself to a crisp. If you want to participate on HN, please contribute to thoughtful conversation. "Concentration camps [...] give me a break" does not qualify. Moreover, we've had to warn you about this exact thing before. Would y…

I don't see how pointing out a country has concentration camps (reported by multiple outlets, like the NYTs) is "nationalistic," or against the spirit of the site. In fact the story has been reported here...A LOT. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=china%20muslims&sort=byPopular... https://hn.algolia.com/?query=china%20concentration&sort=byP... I don't see anyone being "warned" about their -submissions- on this very topic…

I'm aware of how often the story has been submitted and also how often people bring it up in comments, including where it breaks this site guideline to do so:

"Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

The issue is that your comment was taking the thread further into flamewar. That's not ok here. Is the policy evenly enforced? No, because we don't see everything. That doesn't make it ok to break the rules though.