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Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

nytimes.com

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Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#281

Post by kafkaesq »

davidw wrote: post #245
mhurron wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classifying material should not be a way for the Government to hide corruption and wrongdoing. Whistle blowing is the only way that prevents that. Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience, which is the best we can expect anyone to do. The governments punishment was to prevent that happening again.

Manning dumped a whole slew of stuff without any checking or vetting or anything else. Some of the stuff I saw in relationship to Italy, for instance, was just diplomatic personnel airing "what they really thought" about Silvio Berlusconi. These comments are the kind of thing that didn't do anyone any good to have dumped in public.

Others would say -- and I would say also -- that in general, the public has benefited greatly from the disclosures in the more pertinent cable leaks.

The thing to keep in mind, though, is that Manning didn't simply dump these to "the public"; she gave them to Assange and his people, who (after some falling out with each other, and a lapse in some basic security practices) managed to leak the passphrase to one of their private keys.

Which isn't to say she's not responsible for the consequences of her actions; in any case, she's already very much paid the price for the decision she made. But still, it was not her intent that the cables be simply "dumped in public".

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#282

Post by hackinthebochs »

teddyh wrote: post #273
hackinthebochs wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't very selective. If he were being selective he would only have released information that had constitutional issues. Most of his documents were regarding foreign spying.

Just because something is constitutional does not make it ethical.

Irrelevant when it comes to whistleblowing and legality. The government could not function if people were justified in releasing all information they disagreed with. Surely the set of information related to actions that no one disagrees with is empty or nearly so.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#283

Post by gnaritas »

ghostly_s wrote: post #170
ishields wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on now, "They" does not imply any gender and is appropriate to describe any person

In this context, it reads as a refusal to accept usage of her preferred pronoun.

It is not other people's responsibility to know what your preferred pronoun is; you don't have a right to a preferred pronoun; you don't get to tell other people how they should speak. They is perfectly appropriate in all situations as it is gender neutral.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#284

Post by manarth »

pvg wrote: post #183
HerraBRE wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "collateral murder" video, which was based on Manning's leaks, is really quite chilling and definitely shows wrong doings that were then covered up by the government. There was more, but this was the most visual/memorable. I suggest you turn your scepticism to 11 and go watch it, see if you still feel the same way. https://collateralmurder.wikileaks.org/ (warning: if watching civilians, journalists and children b…

The incident had been reported and covered by the press, there was no 'government cover up'. The new bit was the video itself.

  The new bit was the video itself.
Saying "X happened", and offering "Here is video that demonstrates X happened" are very different things. A video of an event can be of such overwhelming significance that its importance is impossible to calculate.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#285

Post by FrostyElsa »

DINKDINK wrote: post #138
wheelerwj wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She can't be tried again though, so how would they undo it?

Legally they wouldn't be able to convict Manning of the same crime again. The state can do what they do with every dissident; surveil her in the extreme and then prosecute her for some trivial offense. Law is extremely complex and dense. You have certainly broken laws but haven't been punished for them sole reason that you haven't drawn the ire of the political class. Do you think it's just mere coincidence that anyt…

OJ stole a TV after being found guilty in his murder trial decades later? 30-life. Yeah. Talk about a disproportionate punishment.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#286

Post by SCHiM »

colechristensen wrote: post #222
mhurron wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classifying material should not be a way for the Government to hide corruption and wrongdoing. Whistle blowing is the only way that prevents that. Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience, which is the best we can expect anyone to do. The governments punishment was to prevent that happening again.

Snowden released a large volume of information to well qualified journalists who very carefully combed through the data to find the things most relevant and important for the American public to know. Information that was legitimately classified and had no whistleblowing value simply wasn't released. Manning released a large volume of information to the public en masse with no regard to it's whistleblowing value. Some…

Also the article states tat manning tried to approach the NYT and washington post, but was refused/ignored.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#287

Post by kidcoach »

notpc wrote: post #18

Manning indiscriminately leaked tons of diplomatic cables, as part of a personal vendetta against the US Army. It is without contention that the vast majority of the leaked cables revealed nothing that anyone considers wrongdoing. This wasn't the act of a whistle blower. It was the cowardly act of someone who put their own petty fantasies ahead of their solemn duty to protect the information they were entrusted with…

HN is one of the few places left for open political discourse with little partisanship or blundering hostility. Your comment/account suggests that you have no intention of continuing that trend. Down-votes represent a reaction to that, not your particular pov.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#288

Post by rabidrat »

adrienne wrote: post #256
rthomas6 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

Manning is a woman; is there some reason you're calling her a "they"?

"He" is the pronoun that was used in their past, "she" is the pronoun for the present. When we're talking about the past+present for this person, I think "they" is not unreasonable. At least, it's more reasonable than trying to call someone out for their pronoun usage when the discussion is about a much more serious topic.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#289

Post by [deleted] »

mhurron wrote: post #95
rthomas6 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

Classifying material should not be a way for the Government to hide corruption and wrongdoing. Whistle blowing is the only way that prevents that. Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience, which is the best we can expect anyone to do. The governments punishment was to prevent that happening again.

[deleted]

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#290

Post by chc »

ythn wrote: post #137
mhurron wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classifying material should not be a way for the Government to hide corruption and wrongdoing. Whistle blowing is the only way that prevents that. Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience, which is the best we can expect anyone to do. The governments punishment was to prevent that happening again.

You can spin any type of classified material as "corruption" and "wrongdoing". Who draws the line? What if someone indiscriminately leaked everything on the Manhattan project during WW2? Would they be a hero because they "acted on their conscience" and showed the world that the big bad USA was secretly developing WMDs? Or would they be a villain because they just taught other countries how to do the same? To the peac…

Do you really believe that the government should be able to do whatever it wants in any area with no transparency or oversight? That's what you're saying — that nobody should be allowed to disclose something that government officials don't want them to, without any further consideration — but I have trouble believing that's what you mean to say.
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