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Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

nytimes.com

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Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#251

Post by hackinthebochs »

etjossem wrote: post #221
hackinthebochs wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Her conscience could not bear to keep these human rights abuses secret Manning had no idea what was in any of the information being leaked. This is not the actions of a conscientious objector. The amount of re-writing history going on here is absurd.

> no idea what was in any of the information being leaked After watching journalists get annihilated by an Apache missile strike, there is not a lot of room for confusion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0

So because there happened to be something bad among the 250k documents, the act itself is completely absolved? If I were to murder 100 people randomly should I be absolved because it turned out one of them was a child molester?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#252

Post by dublinben »

and0 wrote: post #195
rthomas6 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry. I didn't know which pronoun to use because I didn't know if gender changes apply retroactively, grammatically speaking. I'm having trouble knowing which one to use to write this post, too. At the time of the leaks Chelsea Manning identified as Bradley, a male. Is it politically correct to use 'she' for all past references, including the times where Chelsea Manning identified as male? Or would it make more sens…

Very understandable. I believe pronouns apply retroactively.

How Orwellian.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#253

Post by nothrabannosir »

cm2187 wrote: post #115
chollida1 wrote: post #11

It's been said that one person's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. > The files she copied also included about 250,000 diplomatic cables from American embassies around the world showing sensitive deals and conversations, dossiers detailing intelligence assessments of Guantánamo detainees held without trial, and a video of an American helicopter attack in Baghdad in two Reuters journalists were killed, among othe…

But whistle blowing on what? That the US diplomacy has secret conversations with every one, negiciates deals, and collect information locally in confidence? That's pretty much their job description. What did Manning whistlebow on? Leaking confidential information isn't whistleblowing.

It's right there in the article:

She copied hundreds of thousands of military incident logs from the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, which, among other things, exposed abuses of detainees by Iraqi military officers working with American forces and showed that civilian deaths in the Iraq war were likely much higher than official estimates.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#254

Post by cdubzzz »

> “Mr. Snowden fled into the arms of an adversary, and has sought refuge in a country that most recently made a concerted effort to undermine confidence in our democracy.”

What an amazingly loaded statement that is. Russia is just a straight up "adversary" now? Infuriating.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#255

Post by DanBC »

and0 wrote: post #186
ForrestN wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what Chelsea Manning's pronoun preferences are, but I have plenty of friends who prefer "they," which also happens to be the gender-neutral singular pronoun in English. For example: "Someone came by asking for me earlier? Did they give you a name?" Many people who do not identify as male or female prefer "they."

That's a valid point, but if you don't know enough about Chelsea Manning's recent history or prison sentence to know her preferred pronoun (or even read the article where it's made very clear) why even comment?

You've assumed the person using "they" did know enough about Chelsea Manning's recent history and chose to use they as some kind of statement.

You should probably be talking the the person who called her "guy", or the person who said she was forced to change gender as a punishment, (both in this thread) rather than the person who politely used "they" because they weren't sure whether to apply she to the time she was identified as male.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#256

Post by adrienne »

rthomas6 wrote: post #72
djsumdog wrote: post #32

Seven years is still a long time for whistle blowing. I'm glad to see she is still getting released though. It's important to note commuting the sentence is not a pardon. Chelsea will still have this conviction for the rest of her life. I know there is a lot of controversy with Manning compared to Wikileaks et. al. as far as not redacting documents or using a discriminating news source to filter them. Still, I oppose…

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

Manning is a woman; is there some reason you're calling her a "they"?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#257

Post by etjossem »

cderwin wrote: post #246
bmuon wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, non-native speaker here. But wouldn't "they" apply when you don't know when the gender of the person? In this case you do know.

From a grammatical perspective it should be noted that "they" is plural. It is gender-neutral, but should only be used when referring to multiple people. The correct gender-neutral singular pronoun is "he or she".

"They" can be used in the singular, and many communities use it in that manner frequently! Merriam-Webster has a great piece on this. [1]

[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/singular-nonbi...

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#258

Post by losteric »

ghostly_s wrote: post #170
ishields wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on now, "They" does not imply any gender and is appropriate to describe any person

In this context, it reads as a refusal to accept usage of her preferred pronoun.

It also reads as someone who understands the pronoun issue, but doesn't understand the temporal rules around pronouns. Instead, just opting for the traditional gender-neutral pronoun.

There's a lot of different perspectives and opinions, and honestly the rules aren't clear cut yet. At this point I pretty much always refer to people as "them" online.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#259

Post by malz »

joshschreuder wrote: post #203
andrewbinstock wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And his support for LGBT issues

I look forward to a day where we don't need to celebrate our leaders for basic human decency.

Or punish our (future) leaders for basic human depravity.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#260

Post by Shivetya »

_delirium wrote: post #101
rthomas6 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

Obama doesn't seem to completely disagree, since he didn't pardon her. He instead commuted the sentence from 35 years to 7 years' imprisonment. In my personal opinion that's still too long for the crime, but it's at least less completely insane than 35 years.

he did pardon Marine General James Cartwright who released details about the cyber attacks on Iran. That one is was a surprise
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