Off-topic but.. "they"? Manning isn't a group of people. Just say "she", it's really easy.
Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence
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Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence
#132She. Not they. Chelsea Manning identifies as female.
Come on now, "They" does not imply any gender and is appropriate to describe any person
Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence
#133She. Not they. Chelsea Manning identifies as female.
The singular "they" has been used for centuries and is currently somewhat socially acceptable, especially when the gender of the person in question is unknown or disputed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_neutrality_in_English#P...
Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Subsequent presidents can "un-pardon" people pardoned by previous presidents, so I have a hard time imagining that a commutation is somehow immune to that kind of thing. EDIT: See follow-ups. I may be mistaken here, and need to run to a meeting, so I can't dig any more now. EDIT 2: http://swampland.time.com/2008/12/25/more-on-pardons/ Relevant quote, "Ulysses S. Grant’s first clemency decision, on his third day in of…
How can they unpardon them? The conviction has been undone, and we don't permit double jeopardy (constitutionally prohibited) so a second charge for the same crime can't be filed. From my brief google searches, it seems that it cannot be undone, by the Congress, by the Courts, nor by the President.
It can and has been undone before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Toussie
Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence
#135She. Not they. Chelsea Manning identifies as female.
“they” is an acceptable pronoun for any person; it is gender-neutral.
Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence
#136Commuting Manning's sentence without pardoning Snowden feels like politics to me. Manning's actions embarrassed the Bush administration so Obama will commute. Snowden's actions embarrassed the Obama administration so Obama won't pardon.
Chelsea Manning stood trial. Edward Snowden did not.
This has been discussed before. A President can pardon people for crimes they may be charged with in the future.
Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…
Classifying material should not be a way for the Government to hide corruption and wrongdoing. Whistle blowing is the only way that prevents that. Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience, which is the best we can expect anyone to do. The governments punishment was to prevent that happening again.
You can spin any type of classified material as "corruption" and "wrongdoing". Who draws the line?
What if someone indiscriminately leaked everything on the Manhattan project during WW2? Would they be a hero because they "acted on their conscience" and showed the world that the big bad USA was secretly developing WMDs? Or would they be a villain because they just taught other countries how to do the same? To the peace loving left he would be a hero, to the nationalist right he would be an enemy.
Bradley/Chelsea Manning is no different.
Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence
#138Good. I wish that he would just pardon her, though. I don't want the next administration to somehow undo this.
She can't be tried again though, so how would they undo it?
Legally they wouldn't be able to convict Manning of the same crime again. The state can do what they do with every dissident; surveil her in the extreme and then prosecute her for some trivial offense.
Law is extremely complex and dense. You have certainly broken laws but haven't been punished for them sole reason that you haven't drawn the ire of the political class.
Do you think it's just mere coincidence that anytime a citizen embarrasses the police they end up being busted for some trivial offense? The Fourth Amendment was designed to prevent the state from harassing citizens and to rate limit the states ability to execute revenge convictions. With everyone having a dossier on them now, the state implicitly chills citizens from pushing back against the government.
Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…
Classifying material should not be a way for the Government to hide corruption and wrongdoing. Whistle blowing is the only way that prevents that. Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience, which is the best we can expect anyone to do. The governments punishment was to prevent that happening again.
No, Manning did not act on "conscience." Manning had no idea what was being released. This was in retaliation for being a bad soldier who couldn't handle even a cushy role.
Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am confident he will have a few tweets about this before tomorrow morning. Does anyone know if President Elect Trump has the authority to overturn this sentence commuting?
Subsequent presidents can "un-pardon" people pardoned by previous presidents, so I have a hard time imagining that a commutation is somehow immune to that kind of thing. EDIT: See follow-ups. I may be mistaken here, and need to run to a meeting, so I can't dig any more now. EDIT 2: http://swampland.time.com/2008/12/25/more-on-pardons/ Relevant quote, "Ulysses S. Grant’s first clemency decision, on his third day in of…
The President doesn't have the power to unilaterally reimpose criminal consequences, which is what an unpardon would amount to. Instead, subsequent Presidents would have to argue the person was never really pardoned in the first place. George W. Bush did this with Isaac Toussie.