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Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

nytimes.com

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Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#271

Post by the_duke »

hawkice wrote: post #215
hackuser wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obama is trying to leave a positive view of the Democratic legacy with this lasting memory. It helps people forget How do you know what Obama's motive is? Were you at the meetings? Did you read the memos? Do you have a brain-to-brain interface or have you hacked his Blackberry? Should he do nothing good or positive, so that you don't suspect him of manipulating people?

> Should he do nothing good or positive, so that you don't suspect him of manipulating people? I mean, the crime, conviction, sentencing, and multiple suicide attempts all happened while Obama had the power to commute the sentence. If there was a principle at play here, if Obama thought it was a moral good to have this person avoid a prison sentence, I'm having a hard time imagining what the roadblock was. Was it tha…

If he did it during the campaining, which was basically the last 18 months, the Republicans would have been all over it.

Not that I'm praising him, he's been terrible wrt surveilance and transparency.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#272

Post by gozur88 »

davidw wrote: post #245
mhurron wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classifying material should not be a way for the Government to hide corruption and wrongdoing. Whistle blowing is the only way that prevents that. Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience, which is the best we can expect anyone to do. The governments punishment was to prevent that happening again.

Manning dumped a whole slew of stuff without any checking or vetting or anything else. Some of the stuff I saw in relationship to Italy, for instance, was just diplomatic personnel airing "what they really thought" about Silvio Berlusconi. These comments are the kind of thing that didn't do anyone any good to have dumped in public.

That was quite harmful. Nobody is going to talk to you in confidence if what they say, attributed, is going to get dumped on the internet.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#273

Post by teddyh »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #210
tomp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden was very selective, and look where that got him...

He wasn't very selective. If he were being selective he would only have released information that had constitutional issues. Most of his documents were regarding foreign spying.

Just because something is constitutional does not make it ethical.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#274

Post by hackinthebochs »

sp332 wrote: post #214
TheGirondin wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a soldier committing this level of deliberately treasonous crime, Manning is lucky there was no execution.

Which leaked documents would have warranted a harsher sentence?

Judging by the sensitivity of the documents is not how you judge the ethics of it. That by chance the damage from the leak wasn't a lot worse does not count in Manning's favor.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#275

Post by eevilspock »

djsumdog wrote: post #32

Seven years is still a long time for whistle blowing. I'm glad to see she is still getting released though. It's important to note commuting the sentence is not a pardon. Chelsea will still have this conviction for the rest of her life. I know there is a lot of controversy with Manning compared to Wikileaks et. al. as far as not redacting documents or using a discriminating news source to filter them. Still, I oppose…

"Just in: President Barack Obama has largely commuted Chelsea Manning's remaining prison sentence. She has been jailed for nearly seven years, and her 35-year sentence was by far the longest punishment ever imposed in the United States for a leak conviction."

- The Marshall Project

https://www.facebook.com/TheMarshallProject.org/posts/186396...

I highly recommend subscribing to the Marshall Project Opening Statement: https://www.themarshallproject.org/subscribe

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#276

Post by Legion »

rand77763 wrote: post #169
rthomas6 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

The POV of the government should be nothing more than the POV of the people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#277

Post by the_duke »

karmacondon wrote: post #143
djsumdog wrote: post #32

Seven years is still a long time for whistle blowing. I'm glad to see she is still getting released though. It's important to note commuting the sentence is not a pardon. Chelsea will still have this conviction for the rest of her life. I know there is a lot of controversy with Manning compared to Wikileaks et. al. as far as not redacting documents or using a discriminating news source to filter them. Still, I oppose…

By definition, a whistle blower must reveal evidence of the commission of a crime. The term does not extend to "actions by the government that I disagree with" or "things that violate my personal interpretations of the Constitution" If you misuse the term, you make it more difficult for legitimate whistle blowers to get the protection they deserve.

By whose definition?

Since you went there:

Oxford dictionary says: "A person who informs on a person or organization engaged in an illicit activity."

What is illicit? : "Forbidden by law, rules, or custom."

Is what the cables actually revealed customary? Probably.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#278

Post by adrienne »

na85 wrote: post #159
and0 wrote: post #131

Off-topic but.. "they"? Manning isn't a group of people. Just say "she", it's really easy.

The word "they" has more than one meaning. One of those is for a person of indeterminate or unknown gender. For example I can and routinely do say things like "If that person wishes to do XYZ, then they must first do ABCD"

Yes, but Ms. Manning's gender is neither indeterminate nor unknown. Ms. Manning is a woman, and she has publicly stated that her pronouns are she/her. This is not difficult information to find.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#279

Post by vkou »

rudolf0 wrote: post #158
mhurron wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classifying material should not be a way for the Government to hide corruption and wrongdoing. Whistle blowing is the only way that prevents that. Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience, which is the best we can expect anyone to do. The governments punishment was to prevent that happening again.

Little unethical behavior was actually leaked, though. The killing of the Reuters journalists probably should've been leaked since there was a sort of cover-up (government refused to give Reuters the video or concrete details), so I'll give her that. But the rest was basically just normal communications. I think she's served more than enough jail time, but this didn't really seem like a conscience-driven whistleblowi…

> But the rest was basically just normal communications.

Which may have had wide-reaching consequences, with respect to the Arab Spring.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#280

Post by dnautics »

_delirium wrote: post #101
rthomas6 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

Obama doesn't seem to completely disagree, since he didn't pardon her. He instead commuted the sentence from 35 years to 7 years' imprisonment. In my personal opinion that's still too long for the crime, but it's at least less completely insane than 35 years.

also being tortured in custody and put into solitary is much for the crime. I don't understand why Obama had to wait so long (couldn't he have, at least done it two or three months ago?) and why he's letting Chelsea stay in the pen till summer? Why not let her out more or less now?
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