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London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

bbc.co.uk

131–140 of 159 posts

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither the Channel Islands nor the Isle of Man are in the UK.

Sure, they are 'crown dependencies'. What's the appropriate term to use instead of 'UK' to include all such fiddly bits? rmc's logic is sound, they just made a mistake of terminology.

I guess the term is "UK and Crown Dependencies"

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the key benefits of The Knowledge is that I can jump in a black cab in London and say "Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons" and have a driver who can instantly decide which way to go... 1. Without asking for any clarification 2. Without typing a bunch of stuff into a GPS device 3. And with knowledge of time/space specific optimizations Yes, black cabs are not cheap. You are getting a very specific service for…

What if you don't want to pay for that specific service? I got a taxi home (not in London) last week and the taxi driver used his sat nav to route me home. It didn't bother me in the slightest. Pretty much all I ask for in a taxi is get me from where I am to where I want to go, as quickly, cheaply and safely as possible. I'm not against people being licenced (that comes into the "safely" bit of my requirements), but…

> What if you don't want to pay for that specific service?

Don't use it. Call a minicab instead.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#133
post #22

The Black Cabs in London have a long-standing monopoly on picking people up on the street and providing a metered journey. This is mandated by law. To become a black cab (not always black in colour) driver, it is necessary to take an advanced test called The Knowledge where you are expected to know every London street and landmark along with best routes based on random street closures. It takes about 3 years to study…

One of the key benefits of The Knowledge is that I can jump in a black cab in London and say "Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons" and have a driver who can instantly decide which way to go... 1. Without asking for any clarification 2. Without typing a bunch of stuff into a GPS device 3. And with knowledge of time/space specific optimizations Yes, black cabs are not cheap. You are getting a very specific service for…

And that is great, but some price-conscious customers might be ok with driver entering location into gps and spending extra 15 minutes in traffic in exchange for lower price. Just give a chose to customers, not outright ban uber.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#135
post #57
post #22

The Black Cabs in London have a long-standing monopoly on picking people up on the street and providing a metered journey. This is mandated by law. To become a black cab (not always black in colour) driver, it is necessary to take an advanced test called The Knowledge where you are expected to know every London street and landmark along with best routes based on random street closures. It takes about 3 years to study…

> Any advances that Uber makes will benefit all mini-cab companies and most importantly, passengers. Except for all of the disabled ones, the wheelchair users, the ones who only wish to travel a very short distance and are unable to do so alone (the pregnant, mothers with pushchairs, the extremely inebriated, elderly, injured, etc). The monopoly and some privileges (bus lane access, pick up fares anywhere) is granted…

There is no reason why someone cannot come up with a service to cater to the needs of the disabled. Hence, there is no reason to grant monopoly status just because you agree too.

Uber should not have too. Now I can see granting some exceptions to companies that agree to do so, bus lanes and extra time idling.

We can simply come up with more and more burdens until competition is impossible, its not hard. Everyone can come up with a reason for their need. I do not not discount the needs of the handicap but they are used more for preventing business than facilitating new ones and usually not by those who are actually handicapped

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#136
post #50
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a neighbour that was doing the knowledge. We used to hear him practise in the back garden with his wife. Hearing her shout random routes at him like "Buckingham Palace to Bank Tube" and him spouting one road name after another was pretty amazing. If you're ever in London and you see a guy (or girl) on a bashed up moped with a clipboard strapped to the handlebars, they are learning their routes for The Knowledge…

Google is pretty good at that too and knows what the traffic is before you get there. It's impressive but no more impressive than navigating a 4 million line software product intuitively...

it's more like being able to rattle off the call graph for any given function, from memory.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but in the meantime the law as it is should be enforced This attitude puzzles me greatly. Rule of law is a principle, not a dogmatic application of The Rules Über Alles. Crap laws should be ignored.

> Crap laws should be ignored. So who gets to decide which laws are “crap laws” and which laws are proper laws that should be obeyed? Last time I checked, this was usually not the job of some random startup firm but rather the responsibility of parliament. You can argue that sometimes it is appropriate to fight against specific laws by ignoring them if the cost of not doing so vastly outweights the cost of lowering t…

So who gets to decide which laws are “crap laws” and which laws are proper laws that should be obeyed

Reasonable human beings. You act as if this doesn't happen on a daily basis. Do you always drive the exact speed limit? Ever violated a copyright for personal use?

Slavish devotion to the law does not make you noble or somehow better than everyone else. It merely makes you obedient.

I could maybe understand fighting that law by disobedience, but otherwise?

Crap does not necessarily mean discriminatory.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#138
post #64
post #44

Screw the black cabs. I didn't realise what a rip off they are until I started driving around the city myself regularly with Google Maps which to be honest with traffic aware routing destroys "the knowledge" instantly. Black cab drivers know how to make cash, not the most efficient journeys in time and money. That meter hurts you badly. So they'll cause some chaos; good for them but it'll raise more awareness on the…

Really ? It's not too expensive. And it seems the workers get a much better deal than with Addisson Lee. I make a point to use minicab firms if I'm not using a black cab, having spoken to a couple of drivers about the working conditions under Addilee.

£19 each way from Waterloo to Barts. That's expensive.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#139
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus a SatNav won't know that at rush hour, a longer (distance-wise) route could be quicker in a black cab due to them being allowed to use bus lanes.

I don't want to say "that should be easy to do," but I'd be shell-shocked if any company with experience doing navigation systems couldn't figure this out without too much trouble. Also, even if GPS signals are hard to get in London, navigation in a fixed city can be calculated in lots of different ways. Allowing for some regulatory limits, a company (or an experienced third-party) could scatter their own transmitter…

It should be easy to minimize turns across traffic and avoid traffic lights... but they seem to have plenty of trouble doing that.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#140
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're either a minicab offering pre-booked journeys or you're a taxi with a meter. If Uber is claiming they're a pre-booked journey service rather than a taxi then yes, they shouldn't be using meters and that would be illegal. If you want to change the law then by all means write to your MP or whatever, but in the meantime the law as it is should be enforced, even against fashionable companies.

In the absence of a pre-agreed/fixed price most minicab drivers will charge based on a combination of distance/time measured using the vehicles trip-meter/odometer and a clock. That's not much different to what the Uber app is doing in (surge multiplier excepted).

Minicabs in London are required to be pre-booked, otherwise they're breaking the law. I can't say I've used them a lot but when I have I've always been quoted a price when booking.
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