London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber • Hacker News Board

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#41

Post by switch007 » Thu, May 08, 2014, 1:39 PM UTC

I've used Climate Cars a few times and they're great. Mostly on time, their drivers are courteous and well-dressed, and they have a fleet of nice cars (I've mainly been in Prius and hybrid E-class cars).

Every time I get in a black cab, I wish I had booked with them. Most mini-cab firms are atrocious - staff are rude and they have no idea where they're going.

There's already good competition, but if there's more coming then I'm all for it. Black cabs have a bad reputation.

(Edit: no, I don't work for them or have any affiliation.)

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#42

Post by rmc » Thu, May 08, 2014, 1:40 PM UTC

fennecfoxen wrote: post #5

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #2

What a deplorable, luddite attitude. The black taxis should be banned for some period of time for this behavior. "The Licensed Taxi Drivers Association complains that Uber's drivers are using a smartphone app to calculate fares despite it being illegal for private vehicles to be fitted with taximeters." So using this website in your car is illegal?! http://www.worldtaximeter.com/

Also, causing gridlock and disrupting the commute is not the best way to make friends and influence people. Unless you have a really clear moral outrage, people will get pretty upset at you as well as those you have a problem with. (If it were otherwise the transit unions would have a much easier time of things.) "illegal to install taximeters" isn't going to resonate with the public, I think. It's hardly the abuse a…

"This taxi driver could be a criminal and/or scam you in the fare" might resonate with people.

It might also tap into latent racism about immigrants driving around with the same level of licencing.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#43

Post by rubiquity » Thu, May 08, 2014, 1:40 PM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #29

rubiquity wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but I think the taxi associations only have themselves to blame for all the ceremony required to become a taxi driver. I think a lot of these regulations were created by existing taxi companies to present barriers of entry to people wanting to form new taxi companies.

Although I'm not an expert in the history of UK taxis, my impression is that a good number of the regulations were imposed by the government, due to complaints from the public about quality/maintenance/knowledgeability/numbers. That seems to have been the impetus for the original 1662 Act imposing a mandatory licensing requirement, at least: Londoners thought there were too many taxis clogging up the roads, and furth…

Sorry, I guess I should say I wasn't speaking with any experience of taxis in London. My statement mostly applies to things I've read/heard about taxis in the US and Canada.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#44

Post by bananas » Thu, May 08, 2014, 1:41 PM UTC

Screw the black cabs.

I didn't realise what a rip off they are until I started driving around the city myself regularly with Google Maps which to be honest with traffic aware routing destroys "the knowledge" instantly. Black cab drivers know how to make cash, not the most efficient journeys in time and money. That meter hurts you badly.

So they'll cause some chaos; good for them but it'll raise more awareness on the issue and hang them faster.

More competition is required in this sector for the passengers.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#45

Post by tomp » Thu, May 08, 2014, 1:41 PM UTC

return0 wrote: post #30

casca wrote: post #22

The Black Cabs in London have a long-standing monopoly on picking people up on the street and providing a metered journey. This is mandated by law. To become a black cab (not always black in colour) driver, it is necessary to take an advanced test called The Knowledge where you are expected to know every London street and landmark along with best routes based on random street closures. It takes about 3 years to study…

But in 2014, there should be no need to make people memorize those thing to the risk of their heads exploding. Maybe if the Black Cabs had used their network to create an AI-powered optimal route-finding system, they wouldn't be afraid of competition.

For the purpose of my and other people's safety, I don't want my taxi driver to be constantly looking at the phone at the busiest junctions, neither do I want to explain to them how to spell a given street name so that they can type it in their phone in the middle of a busy street during the rush hour.

Maybe in 2024.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#46

Post by rmc » Thu, May 08, 2014, 1:42 PM UTC

brianlweiner wrote: post #3

Ridiculous behavior. I'm glad the black taxis seem to have their customer's well-being at heart. "Uber, funded by Google, Goldman Sachs and others, has a stated aim of challenging legislation that is not compatible with its business model," said Mr McNamara. "This is not some philanthropic friendly society, it's an American monster that has no qualms about breaching any and all laws in the pursuit of profit, most of…

They're probably talking about the Google not having it's corporate offices in the UK. The UK is a massive tax haven anyway, with weird little sub-national groups like the Channel Islands and Isle of Mann.

edit: Yes I'm aware the Channel Islands & Isle of Mann aren't part of the UK, but they are 'British' and massive tax havens, sometimes with one company director per inhabitant.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#47

Post by lclarkmichalek » Thu, May 08, 2014, 1:42 PM UTC

return0 wrote: post #30

casca wrote: post #22

The Black Cabs in London have a long-standing monopoly on picking people up on the street and providing a metered journey. This is mandated by law. To become a black cab (not always black in colour) driver, it is necessary to take an advanced test called The Knowledge where you are expected to know every London street and landmark along with best routes based on random street closures. It takes about 3 years to study…

But in 2014, there should be no need to make people memorize those thing to the risk of their heads exploding. Maybe if the Black Cabs had used their network to create an AI-powered optimal route-finding system, they wouldn't be afraid of competition.

Having taken a non black cab yesterday which involved the driver reprogramming the sat-nav, whilst talking on his Bluetooth and handing my friend a business card, I'm OK with relying on human knowledge once in a while.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#48

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, May 08, 2014, 1:42 PM UTC

cjrp wrote: post #36

gadders wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha. I'd be interested to see anyone manage that. On top of this, in central London it's pretty built up so SatNav doesn't always work in the canyons between buildings.

Plus a SatNav won't know that at rush hour, a longer (distance-wise) route could be quicker in a black cab due to them being allowed to use bus lanes.

Well, that's a simple software problem with street definitions. Much simpler to fix than what amounts to implementing a GPS/pathfinding system inside someone's head for even one driver.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#49

Post by rmc » Thu, May 08, 2014, 1:42 PM UTC

6d0debc071 wrote: post #6

I wonder how legal that is. 'If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding [F1 level 3 on the standard scale].' - Highways Act 1980 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/part/IX/crosshea...

There has been many go-slow protests before in the past. In effect, the police will not charge anyone with this.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#50

Post by bananas » Thu, May 08, 2014, 1:43 PM UTC

gadders wrote: post #38

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put that into context, there are 25,000 streets covered by The Knowledge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_Kingdom#...

I had a neighbour that was doing the knowledge. We used to hear him practise in the back garden with his wife. Hearing her shout random routes at him like "Buckingham Palace to Bank Tube" and him spouting one road name after another was pretty amazing. If you're ever in London and you see a guy (or girl) on a bashed up moped with a clipboard strapped to the handlebars, they are learning their routes for The Knowledge…

Google is pretty good at that too and knows what the traffic is before you get there.

It's impressive but no more impressive than navigating a 4 million line software product intuitively...