Well, if the end result is I can travel a mile in a London cab without selling a kidney, I can't say I'm too worried about Uber coming in.
London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber
21–30 of 159 posts
Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber
#22The Black Cabs in London have a long-standing monopoly on picking people up on the street and providing a metered journey. This is mandated by law. To become a black cab (not always black in colour) driver, it is necessary to take an advanced test called The Knowledge where you are expected to know every London street and landmark along with best routes based on random street closures. It takes about 3 years to study for The Knowledge and there is evidence[1] that they have increased brain size as a result of memorizing all that information.
The other option for people wanting a car journey is the "mini-cab" which can be booked to collect from any specific location but must offer a fare in advance of the journey. In order to transport people for money, mini-cab drivers are licensed and have a background check done.
Uber drivers in London must have the mini-cab license so this is a question around the black cab monopoly. As with any government-provided monopoly, the incumbents are keen to maintain the status quo while the newcomers are fighting for change. Any advances that Uber makes will benefit all mini-cab companies and most importantly, passengers.
Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber
#23What a deplorable, luddite attitude. The black taxis should be banned for some period of time for this behavior. "The Licensed Taxi Drivers Association complains that Uber's drivers are using a smartphone app to calculate fares despite it being illegal for private vehicles to be fitted with taximeters." So using this website in your car is illegal?! http://www.worldtaximeter.com/
> What a deplorable, luddite attitude. Well presumably you know their side of the story too? Presumably (hopefully someone who actually knows can fill us in) the taxi drivers have spent huge amounts of time learning The Knowledge and buying their cars and keeping to the fairly strict regulations that exist, and don't find it fair that another company can offer a service without a level playing field. Presumably.
If their knowledge is of any value to consumers, consumers are going to choose them over Uber. If not, then nobody should care. I can learn how to program stuff for MSDOS, doesn't mean it'd be worth anything these days.
As for regulations and licensing, it shouldn't exist in the first place as it only raises prices and prevents legitimate competition.
Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
If that law is correct then it seems they have a perfectly valid complaint, using an app on your phone instead of a dedicated device is just circumventing the spirit of the law. Whether the law should still exist, and whether this method of protest is appropriate, are other questions of course.
"private vehicles to be fitted with taximeters" You can measure the distance on a paper map as well. The smartphone app is only slightly more convenient. I do not think they are breaking the spirit of the law.
Well, if you do so with the intent of charging a passenger for distance traveled, yeah. The taxi industry is heavily regulated, and circumventing those regulations is extremely questionable. Certainly it does not seem to be a fair market.
Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber
#25The Black Cabs in London have a long-standing monopoly on picking people up on the street and providing a metered journey. This is mandated by law. To become a black cab (not always black in colour) driver, it is necessary to take an advanced test called The Knowledge where you are expected to know every London street and landmark along with best routes based on random street closures. It takes about 3 years to study…
To put that into context, there are 25,000 streets covered by The Knowledge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_Kingdom#...
Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber
#26I wonder how legal that is. 'If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding [F1 level 3 on the standard scale].' - Highways Act 1980 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/part/IX/crosshea...
How easy would that be to prove? At what point does a group of vehicles that happen to be driving down the same piece of road turn into a 'wilful obstruction'?
When they announce it on the BBC beforehand?
Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber
#27I wonder how legal that is. 'If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding [F1 level 3 on the standard scale].' - Highways Act 1980 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/part/IX/crosshea...
There are ways to hold a protest/demonstration/march legally [1], though I've no idea a.) whether what they plan would fit what's allowed on that front b.) whether they have informed police etc.
Could well be they're going down the "prove we're not just normal congestion" road.
Edit: forgot the link. [1] https://www.gov.uk/protests-and-marches-letting-the-police-k...
Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber
#28The impression is that Uber are somehow freeing customers from unscrupulous and gouging taxi drivers. Taxi customers aren't being freed, they're simply under new management.
Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What a deplorable, luddite attitude. Well presumably you know their side of the story too? Presumably (hopefully someone who actually knows can fill us in) the taxi drivers have spent huge amounts of time learning The Knowledge and buying their cars and keeping to the fairly strict regulations that exist, and don't find it fair that another company can offer a service without a level playing field. Presumably.
Yes, but I think the taxi associations only have themselves to blame for all the ceremony required to become a taxi driver. I think a lot of these regulations were created by existing taxi companies to present barriers of entry to people wanting to form new taxi companies.
Although I'm not an expert in the history of UK taxis, my impression is that a good number of the regulations were imposed by the government, due to complaints from the public about quality/maintenance/knowledgeability/numbers. That seems to have been the impetus for the original 1662 Act imposing a mandatory licensing requirement, at least: Londoners thought there were too many taxis clogging up the roads, and further were worried about reckless and otherwise un-vetted drivers.
Even nowadays the requirement that London taxi drivers know how to get around London seems popular with the public; British tourists regularly complain about how drivers elsewhere can't even find major landmarks without a map, in a "glad it's not like that back home" sort of way. My guess is that the requirement would be confirmed if put to a referendum. Other requirements, such as the "cannot refuse a fare in central London" requirement, are also pretty popular.
Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber
#30The Black Cabs in London have a long-standing monopoly on picking people up on the street and providing a metered journey. This is mandated by law. To become a black cab (not always black in colour) driver, it is necessary to take an advanced test called The Knowledge where you are expected to know every London street and landmark along with best routes based on random street closures. It takes about 3 years to study…
But in 2014, there should be no need to make people memorize those thing to the risk of their heads exploding. Maybe if the Black Cabs had used their network to create an AI-powered optimal route-finding system, they wouldn't be afraid of competition.